Pathfinder 1E Is Paizo the new Palladium? (It isn't!)

[MortonStromgal]

1) The critics on NWoD were for changing to much.

Thats not exactly true, there were equal complaints about WW promising a new game and giving us a flavorless VtM. There were still Clans, Bloodlines and even the Ventrue and Bruja. The world was too different for some and not different enough for others making a rather vocal amount of fans angry at the nWOD.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I see what you mean, but I think you have misconstrued what those posts are. Rather than a love of OGC, I think it's the love of the accessability to OGC, not something good/bad about OGL.

As you say, Paizo couldn't make OGC to be non-OGC, but I don't they'd want to. WotC had an SRD for 3.5, however they made the progression tables to be non-OGC. WotC limited OGC to some classes, not all - look at all the various splats and Complete books for example. Why weren't these OGC as well.

Paizo chose to make their progression tables part of the OGC, so that all the rules are OGC. Paizo's OGC rules are not limited to Core. The APG, GMG, UC, UM are all open content. Paizo could have limited the Core itself to be OGC, then chosen to make all subsequent books non-OGC. They did not, so any perceptions that Paizo wanted to limit access to their rules because of the nature of OGC is simply not so.

I'm glad for the existence of OGC, and the accessability it provides, beyond that I don't see it as a good/bad thing in of itself, rather good in the accessability to it.

It just shows that you can out the rules out there on the net for free and people still choose to buy the books and other accessories.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I would like to apologize for the harshness of my initial stance - I did not realize or notice (despite his publicly mentioning it) that Walking Dad does not speak English as his first language.

I should have noticed, and apologize for being publicly blind, I assumed malice where none was likely present.

The Auld Grump

 

[Walking Dad]

...

Paizo chose to make their progression tables part of the OGC, so that all the rules are OGC. Paizo's OGC rules are not limited to Core. The APG, GMG, UC, UM are all open content. Paizo could have limited the Core itself to be OGC, then chosen to make all subsequent books non-OGC. ...

I agree with almost everything of your post, epcally, that making the progression charts OGC was a great move. As is their ongoing work to optimize their PRD.

But I doubt they could have made the other books completely IP legally. They are still derived from the OGL, with all it's limits.

Also Paizo isn't putting all their OGC content in the PRD. (I'm neither suggesting this is a bad thing, nor that they should.)

I would like to apologize for the harshness of my initial stance - I did not realize or notice (despite his publicly mentioning it) that Walking Dad does not speak English as his first language.

I should have noticed, and apologize for being publicly blind, I assumed malice where none was likely present.

The Auld Grump

Your PM coaxed me back and I just want to say that I bear you no ill will (I hope this is the correct English proverb).

I badly formulated what could easily be read as an attack on your favorite game/company. So everything is good

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I agree with almost everything of your post, epcally, that making the progression charts OGC was a great move. As is their ongoing work to optimize their PRD.

But I doubt they could have made the other books completely IP legally. They are still derived from the OGL, with all it's limits.

Also Paizo isn't putting all their OGC content in the PRD. (I'm neither suggesting this is a bad thing, nor that they should.)


Your PM coaxed me back and I just want to say that I bear you no ill will (I hope this is the correct English proverb).

I badly formulated what could easily be read as an attack on your favorite game/company. So everything is good

I thank you.

I am most certainly guilty of one of the errors in the article. (I trust no one, and keep my laser handy.)

The Auld Grump

 

[prosfilaes]

All I said in this one was that a game based on OGC from another company has to have OGC. I think Paizo would still made the rules OGC, because it is good for their company. But they also couldn't make the system closed content/IP if they wanted.

It is nothing inherently 'good' in a OGC product being OGC. It is part of the license.

Being an old-school Free Software/Open Source/Free Content person, I've looked with a critical eye at many an OGC declaration. Even staying away from the edges of OGC (and I've seen a lot of abuses of the OGL), they still could have made any new name Product Identity. It doesn't mean much that you can have an undine oracle in your product if you can't call it that. A lot of books with OGC require you to carefully chip out the usable material around the closed content, and quite often what you get is useless. With work, you can copy material from the Creature Compendium, but you can't make a product that builds off it; you have to copy what you need and rename it.

Paizo could have been like many other D20 publishers, and made stuff OGC to the exact extent they believed they had to. They didn't. Nor have they grumbled at those reusing their content; some OGL publishers have gotten indignant at the concept of someone putting their OGC online for free.

Also Paizo isn't putting all their OGC content in the PRD.

What specifically are you referring to? There's a lot of little things that aren't up there, but all of their main rule books are, I believe. That seems to fit the idea of a reference document.

(I'm neither suggesting this is a bad thing, nor that they should.)

Then why was it said?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Hmmm, given that Paizo has plugged the D20/PFSRD site on their front page at least once, they are quite supportive of folks putting up those rules that haven't made it into the main SRD.

There is passively supporting the OGL (you put in the license, and allow others to use anything that isn't IP) and then there is actively supporting the OGL Paizo does update their OGL, made it searchable online, and encourages 3pp to use material outside of the Core rules. They are also perfectly happy using other folks OGC material, give them plugs, and maintain their section 15 quite well.

I suspect that Paizo is behaving much like WotC intended to behave, before Hasbro took them over. (The advantage of being a privately held company.)

The Auld Grump

 

[Walking Dad]

For things not up in the PRD, but OGC, see:

http://www.pathfindersrd.com/

...

Then why was it said?

Because Paizo is just a (consumer friendly) company and not a gathering of saints. I like the company, but not the 'worship'.

Guardians of Order also made BESM d20 open as the animed20 SRD.

And the only rules not OGC in Mutants & Masterminds 2e are the names "Power Points" and "Hero Points" (the later is used for something similar (Action Points variants) in the APG and made there OGC).

 

[prosfilaes]

For things not up in the PRD, but OGC, see:

Pathfinder_OGC

No, actually some of the things at that site are in the PRD. That doesn't answer my question; why does it matter?

Because Paizo is just a (consumer friendly) company and not a gathering of saints. I like the company, but not the 'worship'.

This 'worship' might be a little silly, but so long as it doesn't spill over into attacks on other RPGs, basically benign. Harassing people because of it is hostile and unfriendly. Despite all your protests, or in part because of them, I really do see this thread as your attempt to take down those 'worshippers' a notch or two.

 

[James Jacobs]

While it's true that we don't put ALL of our open rules up on the PRD, that's not at all because we're trying to misdirect things or be obtuse or nefarious. It's merely that, for better or worse, we just don't have the time and resources to put all of the rules from our Adventure Paths, Player's Companions, Campaign Setting Books, and Modules (such as new monsters, new feats, new spells, etc.) into the PRD. We're limiting our PRD efforts to our hardcover line as a way to not overwhelm ourselves... and even keeping our hardcovers up to date on the PRD (while also making sure the PRD is increasingly user friendly and pretty to look at) isn't easy!

I love it when other sites put open content from non rulebook sources up online, though! Spread the rules far and wide!