Is RAISE DEAD (etc.) too readily available in most D&D campaigns?

[Nightfall]

Em,

You might want to check out Dragon 342. That has some nice rules to make it less "cheap" to use.

*edit: Darn it Psion semi beat me to it.*

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

I definately think its far too easy.

Maybe if it was:

5th-level: Raise Dead - revival within 1 round/caster level (corpse must be (relatively) intact), subject loses 1 level AND 2 Constitution, costs 10 gp/hit die of deceased.

7th-level: Resurrection - revival within 1 day/caster level (corpse need not be intact, but you must at least have the remains of the torso and the head - other lost appendages can be regenerated), subject loses 2 levels and 4 Constitution, costs 100gp/hit die of deceased

9th-level: True Resurrection - revival within 1 year/caster level (corpse can be as little as a pinch of dust), subject loses 3 levels and 6 Constitution, cost 1000 gp/hit die of the deceased.

 

[drothgery]

I would say that the availability of resurrection magic should rise with the likelihood of death. Kind of like the power of healing magic rises along with the damage monsters can do, and the power of destructive magic rises along with their hit points.

What he said.

I don't really mind the 'feel' of relatively easy access to resurrection magic (Brust's Dragaera novels are among my favorites), but if it's going to be rare, high-level stuff (instead of uncommon, expensive mid-level stuff as per base D&D) then all those save or die spells and powers at level 6 or lower need to go too, and ways to deal with the massive amounts of weapon damage even mid-level characters can put out need to exist.

 

[Nightfall]

Krusty mate,

Hey there. Me I was thinking of Dragon's idea: that you need to "pay off" the local death god BEFORE you could get ANY church to cast ressurrect spell. IE maybe have to sacrifice a living creature of equal HD to get it.

Let's see those adventurers try to cheat death with only a sheep! ;p

 

[Korgoth]

I wonder: Those who want coming back from the dead to be rare/extremely difficult -- is character death equally rare? Is this because your Players are especially good at staying alive, very lucky, or does the DM "cheat" either by fudging directly or by giving the PCs some kind of "get out of death" gimmick (luck/action points)?

I can't imagine a game being fun if death is as common as the "default" D&D game, but raising as rarer/more difficult than the "default" D&D game.

In my experience, character death is not rare (peg it at "uncommon" , so I like to have ways back from death to be available.

Quasqueton

When I DM I usually don't have that many "over the top" encounters, but there are those big, climactic fights where death is a real possibility. The players I've usually had tend to play smart and conservatively, only going "balls out" when they have to. That said, character deaths and even TPKs do happen. Some heroic tales just end with all the good guys dying (esp. La Morte d'Arthur).

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Is RAISE DEAD (etc.) too readily available in most D&D campaigns?

Yes, but for this campaign, I want it that way.

 

[The Human Target]

I wonder: Those who want coming back from the dead to be rare/extremely difficult -- is character death equally rare? Is this because your Players are especially good at staying alive, very lucky, or does the DM "cheat" either by fudging directly or by giving the PCs some kind of "get out of death" gimmick (luck/action points)?

I can't imagine a game being fun if death is as common as the "default" D&D game, but raising as rarer/more difficult than the "default" D&D game.

In my experience, character death is not rare (peg it at "uncommon" , so I like to have ways back from death to be available.

Quasqueton

I voted yes, mean to bring characters/npcs back to life are too available.

But yeah, in my games (and the 3.5 games I've played in) PC death is pretty rare even without a cleric in the party. For all the reasons you listed I'd imagine.

So for us, when a PC kicks it its sorta rare. And they usually stay dead unless we for some reason really want/need that PC back and go to all sorts of trouble to make it happen.

 

[Nyeshet]

I voted yes, but

it really depends on the DM. As I recall, Raise Dead is supposed to require a what? 5000 gp diamond? Presuming a gp is somewhat akin to a gold shilling in middle ages England, then the coin would be worth about $90-$100 (based on typical purity and weight, albeit using modern costs for gold per ounce). So that 5k diamond would be worth around $450k to $500k.

How many half million dollar diamonds - whole, unblemished diamonds, at that - can you find on the market in America? I'll give you a hint. On the Forbes site is a page on the 10 most expensive diamonds sold in America in 2006. Only 3 of them were a single stone (the rest a collection of stones, usually on a necklace). Of the 3, one dark blue diamond broach was sold for 1.1 million, one diamond ring for 2 million - but 1) it was pale blue, and 2) that price included two much smaller diamonds on either side of it, and one (clear stone) diamond pendant for 2.5 million.

So, a single stone should not be that easy to find. It should, probably be a crown jewel or otherwise out of reach through normal, legal means. It should be the focus of a major quest, finding such a singular rare gem. Professional jewelers will not have access to such stones unless the stone is supplied by a patron for a specific project - and then only if they are a well known (ie: continent spanning reputation) grandmaster of their craft (gem cutting). Such stones will likely be held by only the wealthiest collectors - kings, merchant princes, arch-bishops perhaps, and so forth.


So long as the material requirement is *that* hard to find (let alone use), there is nothing wrong with the level of the spell.

It is when DMs allow such gems to be bought at the local jewelry store or found in every other dragon hoard that the level of the spell becomes an issue.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I can't answer for MOST games as I don't know how everyone else plays, I can only answer for games I have played in. And that answer would be "No". My group tends to feel that Raise Dead and similiar spells kind of cheapens death. It makes it so there isn't much of a consequence when dying. There are only rare circumstances where we've used Raise Dead, and often there involves a quest to raise dead, simply casting the spell doesn't usually suffice.

 

[ThirdWizard]

it really depends on the DM. As I recall, Raise Dead is supposed to require a what? 5000 gp diamond?

Dust, actually. You can crush dozens of diamonds if need be.