D&D 5E (2014) Is Shadow Blade = Pass W/O Trace?

[Todd Roybark]

Is swapping Pass w/o Trace for Shadow Blade a "fair" swap?

 

[Salthorae]

Is swapping Pass w/o Trace for Shadow Blade a "fair" swap?

Swapping it where? For what lists or subclass feature?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes, you need to give context. Shadow Blade is an excellent combat tier spell, Pass Without Trace is an excellent exploration tier spell.

 

[Todd Roybark]

If both spells are considered ‘excellent’ for their areas, then the context is largely irrelevant.

If a Druid PC wanted to swap out Pass w/o Trace for Shadow Blade on their class spell list, and you found the swap to be balanced, then the swap would also be balanced for a cleric of trickery with the Dragonmark of Shadow (Pass w/o Trace is on both the Divine Domain and Dragonmark spell list).

 

[NotAYakk]

No, balance is contextual. And options are power.

They are both excelent spells, but having the option to swap one for the other is a significant power upgrade. Anyone taking the swap would do so because one is more useful to them than the other.

Shadowblade in some characters hands is a fun quirky spell, in others a build defining combat spell.

Pass Without Trace is a party utility exploration spell. The second character with it gains little utility. If you neglect or solve exploration otger ways, you don't care about it.

Many wizards would swap SB for PWT and win big. Many other builds would go the other way and win big.

 

[Todd Roybark]

Many wizards would swap SB for PWT and win big. Many ither builds would go the other way and win big.

Which reads as balanced to me.

A druid with SB might be better at melee, but might regret the loss of utility of Pw/oT.
A wizard trades one excellent situational spell for another.
Even in the case of a cleric of trickery with the Dragonmark of Shadow asking to replace the Pw/oT granted by the Dragonmark with Shadow Blade, is a character built off this chassis with both spells too powerful?
I would argue allowing a cleric of trickery to have Shadow Blade on their spell list, just helps the subclass to feel more cleric/assassin like without having to resort to multiclassing.
What is worse the 15th level Shadow Dragonmarked Cleric of Trickery being able to cast a Pw/oT, and then spending their Concentration on a 8th level Shadow Blade (5d8 dmg) to Elven crit fish away, or the same character casting Earthquake because the Cleric 8th level spell list is kinda sparse....

A gloomstalker casting Shadow Blade instead of Pw/oT is no scarier than what Eldritch Knight, or Arcane Trickster subclasses can already do. High Elf Samurai/Bladesinger is a trope practically

 

[pukunui]

What is worse the 15th level Shadow Dragonmarked Cleric of Trickery being able to cast a Pw/oT, and then spending their Concentration on a 8th level Shadow Blade (5d8 dmg) to Elven crit fish away

This won’t work because pass without trace also requires concentration.

Even if it didn’t, this exploit still wouldn’t work because the “veil of shadows” produced by the spell doesn’t count as dim light or darkness.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

A druid with SB might be better at melee, but might regret the loss of utility of Pw/oT.

If the druid would regret the loss more than they would appreciate the gain, then they wouldn't make the trade in the first place.

Adding more options can only possibly raise the power level of a character; never reduce it. The possible impact of allowing this option is either negligible, or someone will be more powerful. The best-case scenario is that it doesn't wreck the balance too badly.

 

[Todd Roybark]

Puk.... the phrase "spend their concentration" was my attempt to w/ brevity show both spells require Concentration.

I guess it did not come through.

 

[pukunui]

Puk.... the phrase "spend their concentration" was my attempt to w/ brevity show both spells require Concentration.

I guess it did not come through.

Indeed it did not. I read it as wanting to use PwoT to power SB.