D&D General [+] Warlock Build Chat

[mellored]

You still only have one reaction, to be fair, and it still costs discipline to dodge as a bonus action.

if your attacked twice with +5 to hit.
Then 16 AC and negating the first attack, is equivalent to having 21 AC.
And then your AC scales.

Weak to Marilith, or being surrounded, but that's not going to happen often.

and it still costs discipline to dodge as a bonus action.

It takes an action to dodge.
Bonus action to punch.

I do expect monks to get nerfed a little. I kind of think they went overboard just to get approval.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

if your attacked twice with +5 to hit.
Then 16 AC and negating the first attack, is equivalent to having 21 AC.
And then your AC scales.

Sure, it's good. It's doesn't mean that they have no need of more defense. It also isn't that simple in actual play.

Weak to Marilith, or being surrounded, but that's not going to happen often.

Or two enemies that hit really hard, or one that hits really hard with 3 attacks or legendary actions.

And AC 16 is never actually equivalent to 21 AC outside of spreadsheet-land. You negated an attack, and then have 16 AC.

I've had two homebrew classes with deflect attacks for a couple years now, and will save you some turns, sure. It doesn't make you invincible.

It takes an action to dodge.
Bonus action to punch.

That isn't a good use of the action economy IMO. Better to spend the discipline or just not dodge.

I do expect monks to get nerfed a little. I kind of think they went overboard just to get approval.

Not in any way that would impact the build in question, but maybe.

TBH the power level of the UA is being overblown by internet overthinkers.

 

[mellored]

I've had two homebrew classes with deflect attacks for a couple years now, and will save you some turns, sure. It doesn't make you invincible.

Sure. I'm not saying monks are completely broken. Just a bit strong.
IMO, removing the +Dex to the deflect attack would be about right.

That isn't a good use of the action economy IMO. Better to spend the discipline or just not dodge.

Better to spend your action to dodge, and discipline to flurry of blows

At least at level 2-5.

Not in any way that would impact the build in question, but maybe.

True.

And I still don't see a good way to do a light armor, big sword, banshee scream, without some homebrew.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Sure. I'm not saying monks are completely broken. Just a bit strong.
IMO, removing the +Dex to the deflect attack would be about right.

That would be devastatingly bad. The feature has to be capable of negating attacks, or it isn’t worth taking up the space it takes up.

Better to spend your action to dodge, and discipline to flurry of blows

At least at level 2-5.

I assume you mean 2-4, but no longer when you hit level 5?

But most subclasses should have good uses of the action.
It is very cool that they divorced the martial arts attack and FoB from needing you to use the attack action, though.

True.

And I still don't see a good way to do a light armor, big sword, banshee scream, without some homebrew.

Yeah I think another defense boost that isn’t a spell is needed eventually, but not right away. Maybe better to use a feat for more skills rather than beguiling influence and pick up at-will THP rather than AoA so that spell known can be something different from what’s already there, but idk yeah the build is very tight on character options.

 

[mellored]

But most subclasses should have good uses of the action.

Not really.

Open hand is a bonus to flurry (bonus action). Wholeness of Body is also bonus action.

Mercy also works with flurry.

Shadow needs an action to cast Darkness, but that is once, and likely before combat, but won't stack with Dodge. Bonus action teleport will want to use the attack action.

Elemental gives reach and push, no action. Elemental burst is an action, but it's only good in certain situations. Not an all the time thing.


So yea. Other than darkness, and the rare elemental burst, your better off dodging and using flurry.

Yeah I think another defense boost that isn’t a spell is needed eventually, but not right away. Maybe better to use a feat

Playtest Inspiring Leader gives THP (less than before) and +1 Cha.

Defensive Dualist will work with shadowblade and comes with +1 Dex in the playtest. Not quite on the level of a the monk's deflect attack, but not bad.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not really.

Open hand is a bonus to flurry (bonus action). Wholeness of Body is also bonus action.

Mercy also works with flurry.

Shadow needs an action to cast Darkness, but that is once, and likely before combat, but won't stack with Dodge. Bonus action teleport will want to use the attack action.

Elemental gives reach and push, no action. Elemental burst is an action, but it's only good in certain situations. Not an all the time thing.


So yea. Other than darkness, and the rare elemental burst, you’re better off dodging and using flurry.

I can’t stress enough how little I care about tangential CharOp arguments. There are 3 levels where it’s relevant, and at those levels you could be using a longsword instead via the Tasha’s optional feature, even going off your post the more good BA options the less reason to spend your BA making 1 more attack than with the attack action.

Playtest Inspiring Leader gives THP (less than before) and +1 Cha.

Defensive Dualist will work with shadowblade and comes with +1 Dex in the playtest. Not quite on the level of a the monk's deflect attack, but not bad.

Not sure it’s worth a feat even in the playtest, but at least it’s better than in the phb.

Tbh I’m not all that impressed with the level 1 feats, and the whole concept of them being weaker than normal feats. I will probably continue to allow any 2014 phb feat or any XGTE or TCoE feat.

 

[MarkB]

I do have access to wrathful smite as well, might throw that into the mix. I definitely want at least one spell to be a weapon attack spell…but yeah I thought hard about going Fey instead so that my class features were giving me fear and charm stuff, having fear would be nice.

One issue with the Smite spells is that they're concentration despite their generally short duration. Can mess with your long-running Hex if you have it up and running.

 

[mellored]

I can’t stress enough how little I care about tangential CharOp arguments

fair.

But, if she is only going to use a sword, then perhaps you can go Dex/Con.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

One issue with the Smite spells is that they're concentration despite their generally short duration. Can mess with your long-running Hex if you have it up and running.

Tbh I don’t plan on using Hex a ton. I have thought about picking up Bane, though, via a magic feat. Fits the banshee vibe at least as well as Hex but is IMO more worth the concentration, and more worth using a warlock spell slot on when they’re higher level slots.

fair.

But, if she is only going to use a sword, then perhaps you can go Dex/Con.

I so wish the Hexblade did a better job of making a character that truly is doing magical weapon-based combat.

I’ll never not be spoiled by the 4e gish classes, I guess.

Anyway yeah that’s an option, I assume you mean as a monk or a monk/warlock mc. Focus on utility or enhancement spells, Shadow Monk doesn’t use spells offensively, there could be something there.


I think a 2024 build would want to start with Blade Pact and Amror of Shadows, grab Fey Patron at 3, pick up Tome Pact soon after for more cantrips and a level 1 spell slot (plenty of good level 1 spells don’t need scaling anyway), and even eventually Chain Pact for a fun little shadow creature minion reflavoring the pseudo dragon or imp or even sprite.

Less need for magic feats, so probably either a utility feat or a weapon fighting feat.

 

[mellored]

Anyway yeah that’s an option, I assume you mean as a monk or a monk/warlock mc. Focus on utility or enhancement spells, Shadow Monk doesn’t use spells offensively, there could be something there.

I was thinking straight warlock. Plenty of spells that don't require Cha, including summons, greater invisibility (arch fey), hex, armor of agythis...

But all that, and armor of shadows, would work with monk too.