Is stealing PC's toys taboo?

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Oh please. Sounds more like the character was mouthing off when he didn't have backup - even after the DM game him an out. Behave like that, and not getting whacked is like taking a dump on a tarrasque and expecting to walk away.

I'm basing my opinion off the input we have. That the DM was out to teach the player a lesson, and targeted him when he was weak. That, IMO, is busch league. If it was a random encounter or whatever I'd feel different.

The fact that he gave him an "out" from an unfair situation is irrelevant. I guess its more akin to "lick my boots or the tarrasque I teleported in on you while you were taking a dump kills you".

 

[interwyrm]

It's not just that the DM targetted him when he was weak. The player decided to go into a situation where he should have known the character was out of his league, while he was low on resources, and he didn't bring any allies.

If the attunement thing is not how it's supposed to work, then yes, we are using a house rule.

It wasn't the player that this happened to that got pissy, it was a player whose character wasn't even there.

I don't think the DM was trying to teach the 'player' a lesson, so much as teach the 'character' a lesson... if that distinction can be made.

I guess the bit of advice I can gather from the actual situation is... know your players. Don't steal their stuff if you know they will get pissy about it. Do it if it will make for an interesting story and they can deal with it.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I don't think the DM was trying to teach the 'player' a lesson, so much as teach the 'character' a lesson... if that distinction can be made.

If you mess around with the Godfather, the Godfather will try to mess you up. The DM plays the role of the Godfather. Sometimes, the Godfather is actually strong enough to mess you up; sometimes, the Godfather gets a rude awakening.

If there are stronger characters than the PCs running around, the players need to be able to learn that without getting killed. If they then go out of their way to annoy those characters -- or simply fail to take those characters into account -- they have to deal with the consequences.

The king will try to enforce his tax laws. At some point, however, the king may discover the value of letting these particular people slide.

You cannot get the severely cool feeling of having the king exempt you from taxes unless you first get the annoying feeling of having the taxman come to the door. Both are valid game experiences.

None of this is the DM "teaching a lesson" though. IMHO at least. YMMV.


RC

 

[Treebore]

I think I need to put this back on my house rules document:

"What the DM gives, the DM can take away whenever they want."

Hopefully DM's will only take stuff away for good reasons, like intentionally ticking off players and have them go off on a revenge hunt, or the item, or items are too powerful and forcing the DM to make encounters too challenging for other PC's in order to compensate, that kind of stuff.

Still, in the OP's case its obviously the first time the DM has done such a thing, and there is nothing in the rules that says a DM can't touch player equipment. Only advice to do things for good reasons.

So tell the player talked about in the OP to grow up or go home to mommy.

 

[Imaro]

I think I need to put this back on my house rules document:

"What the DM gives, the DM can take away whenever they want."

Hopefully DM's will only take stuff away for good reasons, like intentionally ticking off players and have them go off on a revenge hunt, or the item, or items are too powerful and forcing the DM to make encounters too challenging for other PC's in order to compensate, that kind of stuff.

Still, in the OP's case its obviously the first time the DM has done such a thing, and there is nothing in the rules that says a DM can't touch player equipment. Only advice to do things for good reasons.

So tell the player talked about in the OP to grow up or go home to mommy.

You did read the part where the OP admitted the PC bought the item with some of his character creation points, right? The DM(GM) didn't give the character anything and then take it away.

The player spent points on it and got it taken away. Again I think it was a heavy handed plot hook, especially since it's not something the GM gave to the player.

In my Exalted games a player investing his/her points in something means they are paying for that item to become as integral to their character as a Paladin's "Detect Evil" ability. The only way I see this as remotely fair is if the GM allows the PC to retrieve the item (and even then, as a player I would be a little peeved that I didn't spend the points on something that couldn't be taken by the GM like resources.).

 

[WyzardWhately]

This isn't a problem unless the player makes all reasonable efforts to get the item back and gets shut down for no reason. Dude knew he was in Yu Shan.

 

[Doug McCrae]

If a player has paid character points for an item then it can't be taken away for long, imo. No more than a session at most.

In D&D 3e, gold pieces and xp are akin to character points, so there's an argument that the same expectations should apply regarding created or purchased items. An item you made for yourself more powerfully belongs to you than an item you found in a dragon's hoard.

The other reason stealing a PC's toys could be considered taboo are the wealth-by-level guidelines, assuming a PC is at or below the expected level.

That said the rules support toy nabbing through sundering, rust monsters, ethereal filchers and the like, so they are somewhat schizophrenic in this respect.

 

[airwalkrr]

Yes, due to the fact that the game has become much more player-centric these days, stealing PC toys is akin to insulting the hostess' decor at a dinner party. The publishers have convinced PCs that they somehow deserve these toys and that a DM who takes them away is nothing short of cruel, sadistic, and unworthy or their time. Hogwash. While it would be an unwise plan for a DM to practice this policy without restraint, losing items should be a very real threat in the game, as should death and negative levels. Without these things, the game loses its challenge. Now I am opposed to a DM exercising his power to take an item by simple fiat. But a player who foolishly approaches the All-Powerful Warlock-King of Crazeal thinking his holy avenger will make him invincible deserves a lesson in humility.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

You did read the part where the OP admitted the PC bought the item with some of his character creation points, right? The DM(GM) didn't give the character anything and then take it away.

By that rationale, I shouldn't use level drain, ability damage, etc? Sheesh, we used to play Dragonquest, where a critical hit could leave short an arm or an eye. You think losing a sword sucks -- at least you could still wield its replacement!

Besides, if they didn't want there to be the possibility of losing it, they shouldn't have made it an item.

 

[Imaro]

By that rationale, I shouldn't use level drain, ability damage, etc? Sheesh, we used to play Dragonquest, where a critical hit could leave short an arm or an eye. You think losing a sword sucks -- at least you could still wield its replacement!

Besides, if they didn't want there to be the possibility of losing it, they shouldn't have made it an item.

What game are you taling about? There is no level drain in Exalted (in fact there's no levels period)...I think perhaps before you make such bold comments in such a broad context you should...perhaps read and understand the playstyle of Exalted. Just a suggestion, because it seems alot of people in this thread are applying D&D=Exalted...and it really doesn't. The tone, mechanics, gameplay, etc. are fundamentally different.

If I play a game like Dragonquest (never played it but going by what you posted) the rules and my play experience reinforce that playstyle...Exalted reinforces and promotes the demi-god badassery style and it seems the GM wanted to punish the player for being exactly this.

Second an artifact in Exalted =/= just another sword, especially if you spent your character points on it (some of which could have been used to buy more charms, better abilities, etc.) IMHO, it was always a style preference rather than just an item...you know you didn't put those bonus points in Martial Arts(even though a GM can't take this from you) because you have a concept you want to play and that item is part of it. Otherwise just go for the things that can't be taken away from you (in other words sacrifice your concept so the GM can't exploit you because of it.) it's apparently a safer bet.

Like I said earlier...it's great drama if yo get your artifact back, if not it's a sucky GM. YMMV