D&D 5E Is Tasha's More or Less The Universal Standard?

[Bill Zebub]

I've been thinking about Twilight Cleric. Is the problem really that it's so overpowered that it breaks things, or is it just that the abilities seem both better and less thematic than the options other characters get?

Take 300' darkvision: how often does this really matter? Sure, it's nice in low light (e.g. outdoors at night) to see like it's bright light, but darkvision is most useful when it's completely dark, and how often do you have an uninterrupted sight line of 300' underground?

No, what really bothers me about 300' darkvision is that it's so much greater than what anybody else with "special darkvision" gets: Gloomstalkers, Drow, Devil's Sight, etc. WTF?

Same with the temp HP from the healing sphere. Ok, it's temp hp, not actual healing, but it's still way better than the equivalent ability from...drum roll...healing domain. That difference bothers me more than the actual game impact. And wtf does the idea of "twilight" have to do with temp hp, anyway? That makes no sense to me.

Same with flying. It's basically a free 3rd-level fly spell, although self-only and for 1/10 the time (but apparently no concentration required, which is nice.). But, again, what does 'twilight' have to do with flying? The fluff is, imo, quite a stretch.

And what's the connection between twilight domain and martial weapons?

What a hot mess of a subclass.

 

[Mistwell]

Variant humans are close to the top things like Aaracokra and smatybe Yuan Ti and Satyr are better.

Half Elves and Elves were below them, Dwarves somewhere in the middle with Tasha's they're another Elf more or less.

I'm not talking about popularity but power. Casuals will play whatever for whatever reason.

Did you just call everyone who doesn't choose their race based on purely powergaming concerns a casual?

 

[Bill Zebub]

Did you just call everyone who doesn't choose their race based on purely powergaming concerns a casual?

Isn't it a synonym for roleplayer?

 

[ECMO3]

It might be a bit underpowered, honestly, compared to something like the Half-Elf. The other Races are value neutral, though Race choice isn't as restrictive for different Classes if one feels the need to "optimize."

It us underpowered compared to half elf or mountain dwarf if you use other options in tashas about trading proficiencies.

A custom gets a +2 a feat and either darkvision or a skill

A Half elf can get a +2, two +1s, fey ancestory, darkvision and proficiency in any 3 martial weapons and a simple weapon (or a tool if you already have simple weapons). If you are playing a bladesinger this is the ideal race. You get almost all the weapons you want (hand crossbow, scimitar, whip, shortsword) the one of them you don't get at 1st level, you get when you pick up the subclass at 2nd.

Alternatively you can give up the weapons and get dark elf magic.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm not talking about popularity but power. Casuals will play whatever for whatever reason.

What exactly is your definition of power?

I don't see how you can argue that variant is more powerful than a half elf or hill dwarf. They just don't have equivalent ability scores, they are two points behind (which translates into 4 points on point buy). After you consider the lower abilities you are left comparing what they get from a feat compared to what they get with the race:


If we ignore all the racial abilities for a moment:
At 1st level the non-human is 2 points ahead and one feat ahead.

At 4th level the human gets back those 2 points and the elf/dwarf gets a feat - they are now "even" when it comes to abilities and feats.

They all also have one language so that is awash

After these things where they are tied:
1. A human also has one skill
2. A Hill Dwarf has light armor, medium armor, 4 weapons, one tool, resistance to poision and darkvision. If the weapons and armor are usless he can have 7 tools.
3. A Half Elf fey ancestory, darkvision then either: 2 skills, a mix of 4 weapons or 4 tools, ability to hide when lightly obscured, swim speed, a cantrip or a cantrip and 2 spells.

 

[Parmandur]

It us underpowered compared to half elf or mountain dwarf if you use other options in tashas about trading proficiencies.

A custom gets a +2 a feat and either darkvision or a skill

A Half elf can get a +2, two +1s, fey ancestory, darkvision and proficiency in any 3 martial weapons and a simple weapon (or a tool if you already have simple weapons). If you are playing a bladesinger this is the ideal race. You get almost all the weapons you want (hand crossbow, scimitar, whip, shortsword) the one of them you don't get at 1st level, you get when you pick up the subclass at 2nd.

Alternatively you can give up the weapons and get dark elf magic.

Um, the base Half-Elf gets two actual Skill Proficiencies. That's better than weapon Proficiencies, except for flavor. My Half-Elf Wizard doesn't need to be good with a Sword, he has cantrips already. More Skill, however...

A Skill is one third of a Feat, as is apparently Darkvision, so the base Half-Elf has 3 whole Feat/ASI equivalents, compared to the much more anemic 2.33 of the Custom Lineage.

 

[Zardnaar]

Did you just call everyone who doesn't choose their race based on purely powergaming concerns a casual?

No but I was taking about mechanics that poster brought up popularity which is a straw man. It's a seperate discussion.

Casuals generally don't know or care about mechanics that much.

 

[ECMO3]

Primarily benefits spellcasters. You can't get an 18 under point buy or default array level 1. Variant human doesn't get a +2, every other race doesn't get a bonus feat.

Fey and shadow touched enable it. Having 20 primary spellcasting stat is a lot better at level 4 vs 8.

First off if you roll well it is possible to get a 20 right out of the gate with a +2 and no feat. While that is rare getting an 18 with just a +2 and no feat is not that uncommon. So this whole arguement is under a veil of point buy to start with.

That point aside it depends on the character and I do not agree this is universally true, especially since even with point buy being able to get 16s in 2 stats has a lot of importance. Getting an 18 in a stat at 1st level on point buy necessarily means you have less than 16 in ever other stat and if you make it 20 at level 4 it means you keep under a 16 in every other stat well into the game.

The character I am playing above is a Tempest cleric and she would be weaker at 1st level with an 18 Wisdom and 14 strength than she is with a 16 in both. At 4th level with a 20 Wisdom and 14 strength she would still be weaker. I am not there yet, but when I get there I will be taking warcaster anyway

A Bladesinger that starts below a 16 in either Dexterity or intelligence is hands down and irrevocably weaker.

 

[ECMO3]

Custom lineage is a +2 modifier and a feat.

The racial swaps fix a few things for oddball choices like Nature and Arcane Clerics along with generally just being better than phb. You can swap racial weapons for better ones eg a rapier or tools along with armor.

So Elves and Dwarves are that much better and they were already pretty damn good.

Races that legit needed help eg Dragonborn and Gnomes got bupkiss except floating ASI.

The best races got better.

Dragonborn got a substantial boost in Fizbans Treasury of Dragons.

In all honesty half-elves and hill Dwarves are powerful but Goblin is a serious contender for most powerful race on anything other than a Rogue or someone tied to heavy weapons. Sure you can come up with builds that are better for a specific theme with another race, but nimble escape is REALLY powerful right from 1st level. Fury of the small starts out weak, but once you get to the top of tier 2 it is pretty powerful alpha strike damage once a short rest and keeps getting better. Add to this a full 30 foot movement and the ability to move through large size enemies and it is one powerful race.

A Goblin wizard that sports a 16 intelligence can hide as a bonus action after he casts every turn or he can disengage if he gets caught in melee while still taking a full spell action that turn. This ability is awesome in play. Then at 10th level you can flat add 10 points of damage to one of your spells SR times a day. Sorry that is better than one extra 1st and 2nd level spell once a day.

 

[Zardnaar]

Dragonborn got a substantial boost in Fizbans Treasury of Dragons.

In all honesty half-elves and hill Dwarves are powerful but Goblin is a serious contender for most powerful race on anything other than a Rogue or someone tied to heavy weapons. Sure you can come up with builds that are better for a specific theme with another race, but nimble escape is REALLY powerful right from 1st level. Fury of the small starts out weak, but once you get to the top of tier 2 it is pretty powerful alpha strike damage once a short rest and keeps getting better. Add to this a full 30 foot movement and the ability to move through large size enemies and it is one powerful race.

A Goblin wizard that sports a 16 intelligence can hide as a bonus action after he casts every turn or he can disengage if he gets caught in melee while still taking a full spell action that turn. This ability is awesome in play. Then at 10th level you can flat add 10 points of damage to one of your spells SR times a day. Sorry that is better than one extra 1st and 2nd level spell once a day.

Mordenkainen goblins?