D&D 5E Is the only purpose of a spellcasting focus to eschew common material components?

[MechaPilot]

Maybe it doubles the duration of divination spells? Maybe it gives +1d6 damage to rays and cones? Maybe it grants +1d6 to CHA checks because of how awesome it makes you look when you cast?

I looked at the math around spells and saving throws and assuming all parties in the game universe are treated similarly spells are hard to resist and get harder if the opposition levels as quickly as your character does. This gets worse if the caster can have additional features that increase the DC.

I feel like you are looking at +X foci in a vacuum because the balance to +X foci is +X save boosting items, just as +X armor is the balance to +X weapons.

Now, I'm not big on the whole +X thing. I find a static bonus that fades into the background to be rather boring, so I prefer more active abilities. However, adding +X items are not game breaking as long as you arm both sides of the conflict with them.

 

[Nagol]

I feel like you are looking at +X foci in a vacuum because the balance to +X foci is +X save boosting items, just as +X armor is the balance to +X weapons.

Now, I'm not big on the whole +X thing. I find a static bonus that fades into the background to be rather boring, so I prefer more active abilities. However, adding +X items are not game breaking as long as you arm both sides of the conflict with them.

Sort of. If you give one +X attack boost, the counter requires N defense boosts where N is the number of potential targets. What this typically means in play is people prioritise offensive items and the game devolves to rocket tag.

No class presented has proficiency in all the "important" saves (those save that are actually called for by the spells presented -- CON, DEX, and WIS) and a high level character being targeted on a non-proficient save by a competent caster is very likely going to fail. If that caster gets any additional boost, it can reach the point where a 20 is needed to successfully save (assuming natural 20s still auto-save ) unless your defensive boost is as large or larger than his offensive boost.

 

[I'm A Banana]

No class presented has proficiency in all the "important" saves (those save that are actually called for by the spells presented -- CON, DEX, and WIS)

Isn't that why the save DC for spells starts at 8 rather than 10, though? The highest DC a 1st-level character can have is 13. The highest save bonus a 1st-level character can have is +5. The lowest save bonus a 1st-level character can have is -1 (which actually mirrors the attack bonuses at 1st level). If something targets one of your two strong saves (and everyone has at least one of the "important" saves as a strong save), you're likely to succeed. For instance, the fireballs of the Basic wizard will typically be dodged by the strong DEX save of the Basic rogue.

and a high level character being targeted on a non-proficient save by a competent caster is very likely going to fail. If that caster gets any additional boost, it can reach the point where a 20 is needed to successfully save (assuming natural 20s still auto-save ) unless your defensive boost is as large or larger than his offensive boost.

That sounds a bit panicky to me. I mean, your worst save is -1. You shouldn't be expecting to make that save most of the time, so upping the DC by +1-+3 isn't going to introduce anything new into your life -- you're going to fail that save with or without the boost, and spells are presumably balanced knowing that sometimes folks will fail those saves. It's OK to not save vs. a spell. Yes, your weak point will be something you don't make a lot of saves on. It's your weak save, you have a weakness.

What you fear most ("I need a 20 or better to save!") becomes true without magic items when the spellcaster maxes out that DC at 17th level and you fail to invest any points into your weak ability score. Add magic items and just keeps being true.

And I'm totally comfortable with that being true. A 17th-level specialized mage who has jazzed up her spellcasting ability score to the limits should almost always be able to affect someone with a -1 in their targeted save. Maybe that -1 dude should think about putting some points in to their weak save.

 

[Stalker0]

The ability is purely aesthetics...but they are important aesthetics!

If you want to play the archetypal DND wizard that drops bat guano to make things go boom...you will feel right at home.

But if you don't want that, if you want to play a wizard who relies on his staff, aka the old Gandalf "you wouldn't deny an old man his walking stick"...then now you have a rule to make it easy to do.



Its a great rule honestly, I hope it stay limited in scope myself.

 

[Agamon]

We might see something that's +1, but not likely anything more than that. With bonded accuracy, magic items need to be very rare to artifact level to get anything more than a +1.

Magic items aren't about the bonuses any more, they're more about the abilities.

 

[tuxgeo]

Love it. You can carry both a focus and material components at the same time, and when your focus is taken away, use your components as always. (That is to say, if the components are for a spell that does not use up the components.)

Thought experiment: Wizard casts Minor Illusion -- material component: a bit of fleece.
Guardsman takes away wizard's wand.
Wizard strokes his fleece-lined vest and casts Minor Illusion again, and claims, "No, I didn't deceive you! That sound was real! Remember, you took away my wand."

 

[Nagol]

Isn't that why the save DC for spells starts at 8 rather than 10, though? The highest DC a 1st-level character can have is 13. The highest save bonus a 1st-level character can have is +5. The lowest save bonus a 1st-level character can have is -1 (which actually mirrors the attack bonuses at 1st level). If something targets one of your two strong saves (and everyone has at least one of the "important" saves as a strong save), you're likely to succeed. For instance, the fireballs of the Basic wizard will typically be dodged by the strong DEX save of the Basic rogue.



That sounds a bit panicky to me. I mean, your worst save is -1. You shouldn't be expecting to make that save most of the time, so upping the DC by +1-+3 isn't going to introduce anything new into your life -- you're going to fail that save with or without the boost, and spells are presumably balanced knowing that sometimes folks will fail those saves. It's OK to not save vs. a spell. Yes, your weak point will be something you don't make a lot of saves on. It's your weak save, you have a weakness.

What you fear most ("I need a 20 or better to save!") becomes true without magic items when the spellcaster maxes out that DC at 17th level and you fail to invest any points into your weak ability score. Add magic items and just keeps being true.

And I'm totally comfortable with that being true. A 17th-level specialized mage who has jazzed up her spellcasting ability score to the limits should almost always be able to affect someone with a -1 in their targeted save. Maybe that -1 dude should think about putting some points in to their weak save.

There's not a lot of points to spread around. Spell casters get 10, Rogues 12, and Fighters 14. If you start with an 8 in a save stat, even if you buy up your weak save 4 points to +1 modifier, by 17th level you'll manage to succeed about 15% of the time unless your race/class offers an ability specifically to improve that chance see my post here.

Heck if you decide to spend enough points to max out a poor saving throw, that still puts you at a 35% chance of saving at high level.

 

[Nagol]

Love it. You can carry both a focus and material components at the same time, and when your focus is taken away, use your components as always. (That is to say, if the components are for a spell that does not use up the components.)

Thought experiment: Wizard casts Minor Illusion -- material component: a bit of fleece.
Guardsman takes away wizard's wand.
Wizard strokes his fleece-lined vest and casts Minor Illusion again, and claims, "No, I didn't deceive you! That sound was real! Remember, you took away my wand."

Carry a focus, a spell component case, and then a small supply of your most useful components. If the focus is lost, nothing changes other than you are now relying on the component case. If you somehow lose that as well you need to rely on components. It seems redundant.

 

[Raith5]

Maybe it doubles the duration of divination spells? Maybe it gives +1d6 damage to rays and cones? Maybe it grants +1d6 to CHA checks because of how awesome it makes you look when you cast?

I looked at the math around spells and saving throws and assuming all parties in the game universe are treated similarly spells are hard to resist and get harder if the opposition levels as quickly as your character does. This gets worse if the caster can have additional features that increase the DC.

I hope we see +1 wand and holy symbols. I dont think fighters should get all the cool toys! But yes there was that spellcasting focuses can actually like focus and enhance magic without upsetting the math overly.

Also I havent paid attention to components since AD&D - I just dont find the idea of throwing bat poop at enemies to be magical - so I like alternatives.

 

[samursus]

I think you are likely right that we will eventually see +X foci and +X save bonus items pop up as options for those who want them. That being said, I hope we get some magical non+X foci that allow you do interesting things to your spells (sort of like being items that allow you to impose metamagic effects).

I actually do not believe we will get +X foci or holy symbols, but will instead get the latter; extra/special abilities attached to said items. I would like that.