Is the Psion class balanced?

[Scion]

She was doing 4D6+3 with a non-magical Greatsword and Psionic Weapon then. At 2nd to 4th level, 17 average points of damage (34 on a critical) is very respectable.

Nonproficiency hurts a bit though I would imagine.

The extra damage from the feat are extra damage dice. Hence, not multiplied on a crit.

One attack per combat generally which has a good chance to miss which kills the extra damage ability..

And, her Entangling Ectoplasm was extremely useful at all levels. Facing an enemy medium sized creature of any type, typically no problem. 1 PP and a below average or better roll, and it is -2 to hit, -4 to Dex, and is at half move. Limiting an opponent's movement and fighting capacity for 1 PP is very nice.

Doing it for a few gold is nice as well, saves on pp that way

Although it is harder at low levels when money is more scarce, later on the pp is worth more though.

But, she was always (except once) able to swing a battle that we were losing.

The goal of every character and each has abilities to help do this.

She was also able to "solo" when necessary which is something that many of the PCs could not do effectively. In a large battle with many NPCs scattered across the map, she could run over to the biggest baddest NPC and distract him for many rounds while the rest of the PCs tended to stay grouped near each other for safety (and healing). If she got tagged for a lot of damage, a high point Vigor would get her right back into it. If the Fighter types soloed and got tagged hard, they had fewer healing options.

It seems like this character simply cannot fail checks.. failing a vigor manifestation is likely death.. of course manifesting it in the first place means you didnt do anything that round..

Why dont the bad guys get to use tactics???

Ahh well.. without actually being there I simply cannot point out where things went one way while they could have easily gone some other way with a simple tactic change.

What can I say? She was naked in a bath house with no powers up, so she was easy to hit that time. The DM ruled that although Resilience stopped the hit point damage, it did not stop her from "getting damaged" and hence poisoned.

So the dm broke the rules? You cannot use immediate actions while you are flat footed (even if you were laying down). One dead duck. It is an easy rule to miss though.

Face down, eyes closed while paralyzed? no targetting.

But then, if it is injury poison and you did resilience away all of the damage then the poison wouldnt take effect.

Course, it didn't stop her from kicking the assassin's butt all over the place even though she couldn't move and the assassin was trying coup de graces against her (and had shoved her into a tub full of water to drown her).

So not coup de grace? Was she trying to drown you or was she attacking you?

If attacking then assassin with a dagger would likely have a few sneak attack dice.. so say 2d4+4+3d6 = avg 19.5 or 10 pp to negate each time, which isnt too bad.

If it was drowning then again underwater, facing down.. no targetting. And being attacked by a pretty inept assassin.. drowning is a slow way to go, it'll take minutes while coup de grace usually takes seconds.. with drowning the person has a chance of becoming unparalyzed or someone else coming by.

Another note: Paralyzation doesn't typically do squat against a Psion with PP to spare. It's deadly against most other PCs.

It is definately rough. Although those who have the fewest ways around it tend to have the best fort saves to avoid it.

Definately a psion advantage, although being unable to move has always made me limit someones view. I'll have to check the rules to make sure I am doing it properly or not, if they mention anything about it at all.

3) As mentioned in the previous post, about 2 to 5 combats per day for "combative days".

She only ran out of PP a handful of times and even then

I did a pretty minimal pp expenditure run earlier which focused mainly on useing the feats and it would still run out after 2 - 3 fights easily, and that was 'without' useing the elans ability to absorb damage.

So, I am confused as to how 4 or even 5 combats a day would possibly have enough pp.


Too much rambling out of me for tonight, have a good one all

 

[helium3]

Armor Class Comparison Between Psion and Wizard

I'm going to try to tackle this question regarding Armor Class, since it's one I think I can handle.

I'll be comparing an 8th level wizard with an 8th level Psion that has taken the same powers as the psion that KarinsDad has proferred as an example of an overpowered (I asumme) Psion.

We'll assume the following things:

Both characters are medium sized and have intelligence's of 18. For purposes of a direct comparison, I'm going to assume that the characters have a dexterity of 10 and don't have rings of protection.

The wizard (who is not a specialist) can memorize the following spells/day: 4/5/4/4/3. If we make the assumption (and i believe it's a valid one) that spells can be likened to powerpoints and converted using the normal amount per level, then the wizard has a total of 59 equivalent PP. I assume that four cantrips are equivalent to 1 PP. (1 + 5*1 + 4*3 + 4*5 + 3*7).

Also, please note that a troll has a natural armor of +5, but since you're also being enlarged to large size, your effect AC change is +4. Not sure where the +6 comes from.

If we then assume that the Wizard has access to and has memorized all AC enhancing spells, which is not a terribly unlikely possibility, then the Wizard can cast the following spells to enhance AC.

Mage Armor / +4 AC / 1 PP
Shield / +4 AC / 1 PP
Reduce Person / +1 AC / 1 PP
Cat's Grace / +2 AC / 3 PP
Protection From Evil / +2 AC / 3 PP
Haste / +1 AC / 3 PP
Polymorph / +4 AC / 7 PP

AC Improvement / +18
Rounds To Cast / 7
Total Expenditure / 18 PP
Percent of Daily Total / 30%
Point AC Per PP / 1:1

Also, please note that Reduce person has the added bonus of improving your chance to hit (while decreasing damage dealt so maybe it's a wash) and Haste can be cast on 8 people in total, not just the caster. Protection from Evil also has a number of other useful side effects, but only works against evil creatures. Presumeably other versions could be used, though there is no defense against neutral opponents.

Now lets look at the 8th level Psion, who has 76 Power Points in total thanks to that 18 intelligence:

Inertial Armor / +7 AC / 7 PP
Force Screen / +5 AC / 5 AC
Defensive Precognition / +3 AC / 7 PP
Thicken Skin / +3 AC / 7 PP
Animal Affinity / +2 AC / 3 PP
Metamorphosis / +4 AC / 7 PP

AC Improvement / +24
Rounds To Cast / 6
Total Expenditure / 36 PP
Percent of Daily Total / 47%
Point AC Per PP / 2:3

Also, with the exception of metamorphosis, none of these powers have useful "side effects" and cannot be cast on other people, or on multiple targets.

So, I think it's pretty clear here that the Psion is not overpowered, at least with respect to AC. Yes, the Psion can achieve much higher AC's than an equivalent wizard, but it's at a much greater cost than the wizard, with minimal beneficial side effects. About the only downside for the wizard is that it would take seven rounds to complete this buff sequence, as opposed for six for the Psion.

Also, it should be noted that these defensive spells are going to be 36% of the hypothetical Psion's ENTIRE repatoire. Presumeably, the equivalent 8th level wizard is going to have a lot of other nifty spells in her book.

I don't expect this to change anyone's mind, but at least it offers a useful diversion from the usual back and forth of "Psion's are overpowered!!!!" and "No they aren't!!!!!'

 

[Pielorinho]

Does Resilience have a new name in 3.5?

Daniel

 

[brehobit]

Not a psionics player. But talking to people my impression is that a psion has the option of burning through his power at a much greater rate if they want. That flexibility seems signficant. In a game where you don't always hit 4 encounters/day the psion may be more powerful. When you are hitting only 1 or 2 a day (many outdoor adventures) it seems psionics will be very powerful. In the same way, a game where you have 6 or 7 encounters per day, a warlock will shine.

The trick wih the psion is that he seems to have flexiblity arcane casters lack....

Mark

 

[Dinkeldog]

Just a little nitpick... psions get an extra bonus feat instead of the summon familiar ability, which they can spend on a psicrystal or on something else, as required; there's absolutely no advantage for the wizard here, rather a pretty big one for the psion (along the lines of how good *choice* is, as often enough demonstrated with the human racial ability).

The wizard does have Scribe Scroll over the psion, tho, but the psion is definitely not two feats behind at 1st level.

Bye
Thanee

Okay. The psion is only behind one feat.

 

[Thanee]

The trick wih the psion is that he seems to have flexiblity arcane casters lack....

That's right, and a very powerful ability as well; and furthermore the downsides (i.e. balancing factors) are rather little (basically comes down to lack of party buffs).

In a very simple overview, it looks like this...

Lots and lots of encounters per day:
- Psions are weak
- Spellcasters are weak
- Non-spellcasters are average

Many encounters per day:
- Psions are average
- Spellcasters are average
- Non-spellcasters are average

Some encounters per day:
- Psions are good
- Spellcasters are good
- Non-spellcasters are average

Few encounters per day:
- Psions are huge
- Spellcasters are good
- Non-spellcasters are average

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Okay. The psion is only behind one feat.

Yep.

Now the question is, whether the choice is worth this lack or not.

It probably isn't completely worth it (not as useful as the human's bonus feat), but the Psion's bonus feat is worth more than each of the single fixed Wizard feats (counting summon familiar as a feat) for sure.

Bye
Thanee

 

[KarinsDad]

those two comments seem to be at odds.

Familiar + Scribe Scroll vs bonus feat chosen from psionic feat, metapsionic feat, or psionic item creatrion feat.

More vs choice. Depending on how you want to look at it one could easily be seen as being better than the other.

personally, I prefer the choice. But then that is because I think the mechanics for familiar need to be redone and I have never scribed a scroll.. ever.

But that is just me. I know some people who love their familiars to death and scribe enough scrolls to always have a dozen or more spells handy.

I don't "love my familiar". In fact, I rarely take them. I do scribe as a Wizard within reason thought.

I agree Familiars have to be redone.

But to me, this is Scribe Scroll versus Choice.

Yes, Alertness is nice. Until the Familiar dies. Granted, some DMs do not target Familiars. I don't know why. A single Burning Hands at first level will smoke a Famliar.

 

[KarinsDad]

Also, please note that a troll has a natural armor of +5, but since you're also being enlarged to large size, your effect AC change is +4. Not sure where the +6 comes from.

You get the Troll's Str, Dex, Con, Natural Armor, and Size Modifier.

So, it is an easier calculation to ignore your own Dex (you'll note I dropped it from the list) and take the AC 16 Troll and say +6.

I could have said: +2 Dex, -1 Size, +5 Natural = +6


I have people at my gaming table who start up all sorts of calculations when wild shaping or polymorphing or whatever. I tell them: Take the AC of the creature. Add in your still useable items and spells. Done.

 

[Pielorinho]

Yes, Alertness is nice. Until the Familiar dies. Granted, some DMs do not target Familiars. I don't know why. A single Burning Hands at first level will smoke a Famliar.

First, most folks I've known who have familiars keep the familiars tucked inside a robe; it's reasonable (to me at least) to consider this to constitute cover, especially against a low-level spell like Burning Hands. If that doesn't work, a backpack ought to provide good protection.

Second, familiars have improved evasion. That burning hands does, at best, half damage against the familiar.

Third, familiars don't die at 0 hit points. They die at -10, like everyone else.

A burning hands doing max damage--20 points--could almost kill the familiar of a first-level wizard who had 1-2 hp. But it couldn't quite manage the job.

If someone uses their familiar foolishly--if they send their canary out to scout, for example, or if they're constantly asking their toad to deliver touch attack spells--then they should certainly be targeted. But a cautiously-utilized familiar isn't, in my experience, in that much danger.

Daniel