Is the Spiked Chain Fighter really that Cheesy?

[Darklone]

Okay but does standing up (a move action) count as movement?

Nope, that's a ME action, not movement.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standUp

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

But remember, since the AOO interrupts the action being taken, you can't trip someone when they try and stand up from prone - they're still prone when you get your AOO (with -4 AC).

 

[UltimaGabe]

The thing I want to point out is that almost all of the arguments here about why the Spiked Chain is "cheesy" or "overpowered" could be emulated almost perfectly by ANY REACH WEAPON. A Guisarme or Ranseur can do exactly what the Spiked Chain does (since not many of you are talking about BOTH tripping and disarming- the problem seems to be more about tripping than anything else) and they have the exact same reach. True, you can use a Spiked Chain within 5 feet, whereas a Guisarme can NOT be used within 5 feet, but that's not really what's being argued, is it? A Guisarme still gives you AoOs. A Guisarme still gives you the ability to trip your opponent. Heck, a Guisarme and Spiked Chain even deal the same damage, with the same crit multiplier! And if you're that worried about threatening within 5 feet, give your character a spiked gauntlet or armor spikes, and you're set.

See? It's not the Spiked Chain that's the problem, it's reach weapons in general. And is anyone claiming there's a problem with reach weapons?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

spiked chain is only an x2. the Guisarm is an x3. I think that only further demonstrates your point though.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

The synergy with Combat Reflexes is great, but every reach weapon achieves the exact same effect when combined with this. That's one of the major uses of the feat. Without a reach weapon, it's a pretty silly feat to take - not useless, but not all that useful, either.

I could almost exactly emulate the abilities of a spiked chain by having armor spikes and wielding a guisarme (all I'd lose is a +2 to disarm) - and I wouldn't even need to spend a feat on an Exotic Weapon Proficiency. I'd even have a better crit multiplier! Would that be cheesy, or just powergaming?

I think I covered that point already

 

[GammaPaladin]

Well their have been good examples of the spiked chain. I remember one with the spiked chain making its way into the foreground of the picture.

I saw this picture once, and I can't find it again!

If anyone can point me in the right direction, please help!

[EDIT: N/M, finally found it after hours of search. Was posted over on rpg.net. Don't know what it's from though.]

 

[Elethiomel]

Sure you do both tripping and disarming. And you threaten *all* squares within your reach, that's what makes it so cheesy. Okay, here's how to make a NPC tripmonkey disarmer to make your party run home to mama in tears:
- Be Large
- Be Strong
- Be Dextrous
These three qualities can be had many ways, but the easiest is to go with the Maug from the fiend folio. For extra bonus points, give the Maug a level of Warmind as well for the Expansion power so he can be Huge.
- Take Combat Reflexes
- Take Improved Trip
- Take Improved Disarm
This necessitates some levels in Fighter. If you still have levels left over, put them in Exotic Weapon Master for the Exotic Reach stunt and the extra damage stunt.

Now, if someone is stupid enough to provoke an AoO from you (which they will be, especially if you're huge and threaten 30' in every direction) you trip them, then use the free attack you get from Improved Trip to Disarm them, now that you're at a +4 bonus and they're at a -4 penalty. Now they're prone and have no weapon and you've used exactly one AoO.
-If they want to crawl anywhere, you wail on them (and they leave their weapon behind).
-If they pick up their weapon you wail on them. If they pick up their weapon and crawl away you first wail on them and then disarm them.
-If they get up you wail on them.
-If they pick up their weapon and get up you first wail on them and then disarm them (since they're considered prone for the getting-up AoO you still get the prone bonus and they the penalty for the Disarm attempt).
-If they get up and then pick up their weapon you wail on them and then trip-disarm them.

Once you have a melee weapon wielder inside your reach, they are not getting out with their weapon and without a lot of damage. If I have time later I'll put together a CR10 Maug Warmind/Fighter/EWM.

 

[Jack99]

Just threw something together, so I hope I didn't make too many mistakes.

Egghead, Ogre fighter level 7 (cr10)
str 14->24
dex15->13
con 13->14(lvl)->18
int 17->13
wis 8->8
cha 8->4

HP: 4d8+16+7d10+28
saves: +13/+4/+2

Feats: (4 for HD/levels, 4 for fighter) Weapon focus, weapon spec, exotic weapon, combat expertise, improved trip, power attack, combat reflexes, hold the line

bab+10
mwk large spiked chain: +18/+13 2d6+12
full power attack: +8/+3 2d6+32 (use when target is down)

Key for him to cause problems to a party, is to get close to the casters as soon as possible. Items: +str, +saves (especially will), extra actions/move and of course, some AC won't hurt.

Cheers

 

[green slime]

No, it isn't cheesy. Its the Improved Trip which is cheesy, IMO.

 

[Elethiomel]

No, it isn't cheesy. Its the Improved Trip which is cheesy, IMO.

Maybe so. But Improved Trip gets even more cheesy when you combine it with the omnireach of the Spiked Chain and the Disarm bonus of the Spiked Chain.