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Is the Spiked Chain Fighter really that Cheesy?

I'm just about to introduce a Goliath Barbarian/Fighter as a replacement for my current character.

He has Mountain Rage so he is actually large when raging, and I'm taking Dungeon Crasher for the Fighter.

20' reach when Raging, Combat Reflexes, Knockback, Power Attack, Imp BullRush, Shocktrooper.
 

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why use goliath? i might also suggest that you should try Jotunbrud feat from RoF instead of LA races. a large spiked chain isn't worth +1 LA.
 

Because of Goliath Barbarian Racial Substitution Level 1: Mountain Rage.

I dont have a feat slot to spare, and I'm not a spellcaster, so I don't mind the LA hit.
The 12hd ftr/barb will be more powerful then the 14hd monk he'll be replacing.
 

Elethiomel said:
Maybe so. But Improved Trip gets even more cheesy when you combine it with the omnireach of the Spiked Chain and the Disarm bonus of the Spiked Chain.

Its only the Improved Trip cheese which makes it bad. The spiked chain is really by itself a substandard weapon: it does little damage, and has an even worse crit. IMC, I removed the free attack granted from a successful Trip attempt. Suddenly it wasn't such a big issue.
 

I vote "not worried" about spiked chain and Improved trip. If a player intends to use it cheesily, then make em aware that all somewhat-intelligent combatants will instinctively try to avoid AoO's and thus stop at the reaches edge - and note that such stopped combatants also provide soft cover, meaning that the next combatant can usually walk a field further without provoking an AoO.

Seriously, It's annoying maybe, but not horribly so, and not much more so than many other player abilities. The druid with the high wisdom casting plain old entangle tends to stop my humanoid masses far more effectively, and that's just a level one spell. And entangled creatures take a -2 attack and -4 dex penalty, meaning that they can't even use ranged combat very effectively. A spiked chain also doesn't work well when partially surrounded by allies.

Also, enemies can (and do IMC) tumble to avoid AoO's, so if they're the dextrous type, let em try that. Failure to tumble just means they take the AoO nevertheless, so it's not really a problem. Finally, you can also oppose using Dex, so some combatants actually manage, despite being human. And even a strong fighter (20 str, +9 trip check) tripping a halfling (8str, -5 trip check) has an unfortunately high chance of actually being countertripped, which actually therefore occaisionally happens (though more usually with stronger opponents) and is very annoying to the fighter. And unlike many other specialists, this one can't really scale well: he'll never be much good at tripping ogres, and be outright useless against larger opponents.

Having seen an effective, but not game-breaking exotic weapon master maxed out tripper, I'm not worried. It's more tactical work for the DM, but not problematic.
 

Elethiomel said:
Okay, here's how to make a NPC tripmonkey disarmer to make your party run home to mama in tears:
- Be Large
- Be Strong
- Be Dextrous
Only if the party doesn't have someone capable of casting a Will save spell.

Seriously, if you put all your resources into doing one thing extraordinarily well, yes, you'll do that thing very well, but you'll open yourself to some glaring weaknesses while you're at it.
 

I'm kinda partial to those feats that let you use a Spiked Chain as a double weapon (but not as a reach weapon, at the same time).

Although I prefer that the chain does 1d6 B damage, or 1d4 P with a hooked end. 2d4 is an odd number, and the spiked chain doesn't seem to be mechanically viable. (As anyone who has ever tried to throw a sheet of paper knows, they tend to flip up and 'hit' flat side first, losing force and not 'cutting' through the air. With a spiked chain the effect would be greatly exagerrated, due to the movement of the links. A spiked ball, or weight, would be way more likely to strike for damaging effect than any sort of blade, which would be *more* likely to strike flat-end agaisnt the target to little effect. Blades work better on inflexible handles, such as sword pommels or axe-handles.)

That being said, even with reduced damage, the Chain is as effective as any other 'Exotic' weapon (none of which seem worth a Feat, IMO). With full damage, it's probably the only Exotic Weapon that is worth a feat.
 

green slime said:
Its only the Improved Trip cheese which makes it bad. The spiked chain is really by itself a substandard weapon: it does little damage, and has an even worse crit. IMC, I removed the free attack granted from a successful Trip attempt. Suddenly it wasn't such a big issue.

And if the (N)PCs being tripped aren't excessively hindered by being tripped, it's even less of an issue.

It's just as easy to cast a spell lying on your back as it is to do so standing up.

Brad
 

Felix said:
Only if the party doesn't have someone capable of casting a Will save spell.

Seriously, if you put all your resources into doing one thing extraordinarily well, yes, you'll do that thing very well, but you'll open yourself to some glaring weaknesses while you're at it.
Sorry, Maugs are constructs and hence immune to mind affecting spells.
 

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