D&D 3.x Is the spiked chain too good? (3.5)

[Scion]

The DM should never "go out of his way"

Of course he should, he goes out of his way all of the time. He makes the adventure, helps out players by placing plot hooks here and there, comes up with 'random' treasure, decides goals and motivations of everyone around them. Sometimes things will work out well, sometimes poorly, but one way or the other the dm is always 'going out of his way' to do something.

In this case however, the character tried to do something, spent feats and time (it sounds like a pretty good amount if he got sick of it) along with funds to try to do something. That isnt, 'going next door to the dungeon to get the weapon' this actually involves things.

The dm always has exotic people and places that can and do pop up. Sometimes there might even be a guy who 'randomly' has something one of the pc's really wanted, nothing wrong with that. One of the bad guys might even use just the weapon that the character wants to, nothing wrong with that either. These are all things to make the game more interesting and more fun, it could be that this bad guy somehow gets away.. but the pc has hope of meeting up again and getting that really cool weapon.

This is all good. However, spending feats on something, spending time and money, and in the end having to give up in frustration. That is bad.

It is still a game after all. There are a lot of variables. Even if the weapon is incredibly rare the chances of the pc's coming across one of them increase greatly as time goes on. If there is only one spiked chain for every 100 other weapons then by 9th level the pc should have seen at least several, of which probably all of them were enchanted, since they are rare people will commision them specially and those tend to be enchanted.

The game moves on, and all of this is spelled out in the dmg that you are talking about. Trying to let everyone have fun is a good thing. Punishing a character for picking a certain feat is generally a Bad Thing. Every now and then? sure, go for it, have a ball. Just like being captured and having no gear or being in an area of antimagic. These things happen, but they should be more rare than common.

 

[Scion]

As I stated in my original post, the only reason he chose to quit using it was because he didn't want to pay the gold required (as per the DMG) to upgrade it. So you are correct, there was no reason he couldn't have found a way to get one as he wanted, except that he wanted it giftwrapped.

At about 8th or 9th level, he essentially had to abandon it because he had put so much money into it that he couldn't afford other gear.

That is cool, but that isnt how your original post read. But if you meant it differently than that, that is fine 'Not being able to afford other gear' and 'wanted it giftwrapped' are so completely different as to be on completely seperate pages. (in fact for me they are, one on page one and the other on page two)

 

[Creamsteak]

Now your drifting off topic. Talk about the spiked chain. You can talk about whether the "rarity" of the spiked chain has anything to do with whether the spiked chain is a good weapon or not, but now your in a completely different realm that probably has more to do with general discussion than rules.

 

[Scion]

Now your drifting off topic..

He certainly did drift off topic, and dragged me with him. No worries beard, I actually think we are almost on the same page, just coming at it from slightly different angles.

So bring it back on topic creamsteak, what have you to say about the mechanical issues?

 

[Beard in the Sky]

He certainly did drift off topic, and dragged me with him.

LOL... wow. Goodnight.

 

[Clumsy Bob]

Is the spike chain too good? probably not but the feats that benefit from wielding one could be in question.
We have a chain wielding barbarian in our party, currently 12th level with combat reflexes and improved trip.
A typical encounter goes like this, NPC moves to attack Barb. NPC is tripped at the 5-10 range, Barb gets a free AoO from the trip. NPC has lost its attack for that round. NPC stands up from prone and takes another AoO.
Barb takes a 5ft step back and full attacks, repeat and wash.
Sure that is not always the case but you would be suprised how often.

The problem I see that makes the spiked chain so good are the free attack from improved trip (you have attacked and tripped your opponent, why should you then get a free attack), and the free attack from standing up, can you not stand up while defending yourself?

Any all the above is IMO

Bob

 

[green slime]

But Clumsy Bob,those same problems apply for any of the tripping weapons. The problem is therefore with Trip (and Improved Trip) and not Spiked Chain.

 

[Clumsy Bob]

But Clumsy Bob,those same problems apply for any of the tripping weapons. The problem is therefore with Trip (and Improved Trip) and not Spiked Chain.

True, but I was working from my limited examples of game play never seen another trip weapon in play.

Bob

 

[Thanee]

But strangely, we have had only ONE spiked chain wielder in the past five games of D&D. It really doesn't make that much of an impact to us.

We had none. Everyone in my group finds the weapon just silly!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Spatula]

It seems very broken to me, much more so at high levels. At levels of about 10+ the actual weapon damage becomes much less important.

A fighter of that level with a great sword is doing, let’s say, 2D6 (greatsword) +1d6(flaming), +2(weapon), +6(str), +2(weapon spec) for a total of an average of 20.5 damage. With a spiked chain it’s 18.5. At higher levels, that –2 damage is inconsequential.

You're leaving out that the greatsword crits twice as often as the spiked chain. The critical characteristics of weapons are an important part of their stats.

Taking two 10th level fighter with the above assumed (plus Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus), they both get +18 to hit with their primary attack. Against an AC 23 opponent, the greatsword fighter does an average of 16.1375 damage with his primary attack, while the spiked chain fighter does an average of 12.35625 with the same.