Is the Warhammer a D&D Invention?

[Ed_Laprade]

I say thee nay.

Ha! That's not Thor. Thor's a redhead. With a beard! And he doesn't speak with a fake Shakespearian vocabulary!

And battlefield mauls didn't look like mallets on steroids!

And, and... yeah!

 

[Plane Sailing]

Say it with me now...

D&D weapon encumbrance is not a measure of weight. It is an abstraction supposedly to take into account weight, area, and stowability.

A 15 lb greatsword is probably only 6-8 lbs, but its size and bulk "doubles" its weight to show how big and clumsy it is to carry.

No, I'm pretty sure that was an after-the-fact rationalisation which people came up with later to cover up the duff weights. Because even at 15lbs it would be trivial to carry on any encumbrance system D&D ever used!

They just got it wrong (presumably it was harder to research those kind of details all those years ago)

Cheers

 

[Galloglaich]

No, I'm pretty sure that was an after-the-fact rationalisation which people came up with later to cover up the duff weights. Because even at 15lbs it would be trivial to carry on any encumbrance system D&D ever used!

They just got it wrong (presumably it was harder to research those kind of details all those years ago)

Cheers

Ironically, Gary Gygax did fairly accurate research for AD&D, his article on Polearms in ... the original Unearthed arcana? ... still holds up pretty well on an academic level, most of the 1E DnD weapons are at least in the ballpark, much more so than in subsequent games. But he never did figure out what to do with all that data exactly. And nobody else knew what the hell a "Bohemian Ear Spoon" was back then!

Over time instead of fleshing out and making use of Gary's initial good research game designers retreated from it and went off in their own "He Man / Masters of the Universe" direction. Why I'm really not sure, though I have theories.

G.

 

[Arkhandus]

One of the few exceptions I've seen to the "RW weapons are lighter than you think" is a Japanese weapon- a 5'5" long club with an octagonal cross-section, studded with metal studs for most of its length, which was mentioned on some show I caught the other night while channel surfing.

In most American RPGs, its called a Tetsubo, but they used a different name for it (which escapes me).

Most likely you're describing the Kanabo.

 

[Kask]

Over time instead of fleshing out and making use of Gary's initial good research game designers retreated from it and went off in their own "He Man / Masters of the Universe" direction. Why I'm really not sure, though I have theories.

I think it was because people started playing who actually grew up watching that show. They picked up the PHB and said, "Hey there are no real weapons here!"

The rest is history.

 

[pawsplay]

My only familiarity is with claymores (and I've seen an estoc, but that's a corner-case sword used for taking knights off horseback). So my knowledge of handed sword weights is a little skewed (I assumed anything lighter would be a bastard sword/hand and a half sword).

Interesting ceremonials would be heavier than battle weapons. You'd think a heavier weapon would be better for resisting wear and tear and a ceremonial lighter because its not cleaving through armor and flesh. Eh, you learn something new...

If you want to get a good cross-section, and I'm not saying this is like a museum or anything, check out Museum Replicas. Unlike many catalogs, they usually say what weapons theirs were reproduced from.

Link

There are a number of problems with heavy, ceremonial weapons as weapons. They are too slow, for one thing, and at a certain point, they become too flexible because of the length. The best way to avoid wear and tear is to avoid blade contact with anything other than your opponent, at which point you want the smallest striking area possible.

Contrary to what you might imagine, the typical knightly weapon for big chunks of history were things like maces, axes, and war hammers, which do resist wear and tear pretty nicely, which takes us back to the original topic. Taking a piece of steel and using it to cave in your opponent's helmet was indeed a popular tactic.

 

[Erekose]

Ha! That's not Thor. Thor's a redhead. With a beard! And he doesn't speak with a fake Shakespearian vocabulary!

And battlefield mauls didn't look like mallets on steroids!

And, and... yeah!

I'm not sure this Thor carries a weapon more historically accurate than the Marvel version - LOL!

 

[pawsplay]

Thor's hammer wouldn't be a historical maul, anyway. It's described as an unusually short-handled hammer.

 

[Kask]

I'm not sure this Thor carries a weapon more historically accurate than the Marvel version - LOL!

Here's an older depiction:

This one is from 1000 A.D. Iceland:

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm not sure, but it looks like Icelandic Thor is getting "hammered" with a funny looking bong...

"Duuuude...Mjolnir *puffpuff* rocks!"