Is there a DM Obligation for PC Abilities?

[Seramus]

It's a time thing.

New to the character? Sure. I'll go out of my way to mention stuff you can do. Been playing for months? I stop mentioning things.

Giving them the answer encourages them to forget again. Shrugging your shoulders and continuing on with the game encourages them to remember next time. I don't go out of my way to punish this kinda stuff, but if you don't remember you don't get the bonus.

 

[NotAYakk]

If there is a Pc that regularly forgets their abilities, you help, and if that fails, suggest rebuilding as a simpler character.

Replace battlemaster with champion, drop GWM and bump attributes (or swap for toughness feat).

The goal is to have fun. And someone who has a character too complex for them to manage is probably experiencing a fun deficit.

And playing someone else's character for them also causes a fun deficit.

Worst comes to worse, I'd homebrew something simpler than even a champion fighter.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

"Which is kind of sad but he's one of 3 brothers playing and nobody wants to boot him except me."

Which is surprising since we all banded together to block one of the brothers from adding his stepson to the group with no warning. Maybe we should have taken Timmy and kicked his uncle out? Alas no do overs.

 

[iserith]

I tend to give benefit of the doubt at first. But as a DM, I put in a lot of effort into the game in between sessions. If a player can’t even be bothered to read up on their character abilities between sessions, that’s when I lose that benefit of the doubt and they are on their own.

One thing that bothers me are players who think the DM is there for their entertainment only, without needing to put in a basic effort themselves. And then they wonder why DMs are in short supply. And it’s usually the same people who never DM a game themselves.

That sounds frustrating. I'm not bothered by anything the players do really, provided they're trying to achieve the goals of play during the session. What they do outside of the session, including reading up on their character sheets, is not really my concern. They'll pay a price at some point for lack of player skill and perhaps that will encourage them to get better. But if not, that's okay too as long as they're fun to play with otherwise and help us create an exciting, memorable story by playing.

 

[Coroc]

h/t @Oofta @Ruin Explorer

So in another thread, an interesting conversation came up; specifically, is there a DM obligation regarding character (PC) abilities? If there is, what exactly is the DM's obligation?

To give you an idea as to the context of this conversation, the genesis was discussing a player in one of my campaigns who has a decided inability to remember that his Fighters have action surge. No matter how many times people (DM, other players) tell him, he just can't seem to remember that he has it and that he can use it.

This seemed to strike a chord, as Oofta noted that he has a player who, similarly, often forgets about his Battlemaster skills. Now these are particular examples, but I think that over time we all have either had players, or been players that have forgotten about abilities (or magic items, or spells, or whatever) that our characters had and should be used.

Note: I am not discussing players who ration items or abilities and never, or rarely, use them, like someone with a ring of three wishes who never finds the right moment. This is more about players who just don't remember they can do something.


So here's the question, and the poll. What is the DM's obligation when there is a player like this? In other words, the DM knows that the players has an ability (or item, or whatever), and the DM knows that the player has forgotten about it ... what is the DM's obligation to that player/to the table?

I am setting this up as a thread (conversation) and as a poll with the following options:

1. DM should remind the player when the ability is useful during the game. (For example, in a given round when the PC might want to use that ability, the DM should explicitly ask the player if they are going to use it).

2. DM can hint, but not tell the player, during the game. (For example, the DM might say, "Hey, Brad, you sure there is NOTHING you can do?").

3. DM should remind the player between sessions, or at the beginning of the session, but not during the game.

4. DM has no obligation to remind the player.


So, what do you think?

1. It depends on the level of system mastery a player has. If he is a DM himself i am merciless. I might tell hi mafter the session. I might be nice if it is really on the edge.
2. If somebody is mostly a recreational player he gets reminders all the time if necessary, i am glad enough he shows up regularly and accept that for him it does not go that kind of in depth like for me.

Example for 1:
Big fight coming up group faces a white dragon, i calculated upfront that they have an approx 60/40 chance to manage that encounter without dead PCs if they go all out from the first round and i also communicate that.
Mage has a nice little toy for shits and giggles and for me as last resort deus ex machina, a little mechanical chicken which can spit fire (1d4) and does so at the most impossible times.
So the very experienced player, playing a battlemaster, has initiative on the dragon, he starts: "Ah i try to pickup the chicken and thorw it into the maw of the dragon." This got me nearly crazy, i said to him "did you not listen, you got one chance, do your action surge and superiority dice and whatever you got from round one, leave the chicken that is MY deus ex machina tool!"
Well they did win with only two characters out of 5 in the deathsaves and survived. Had i gone along it would have been a total party kill.

Example for 2:
We are all not native speakers and one guy is especially bad at english and he is not so much into system mastery, so if he missinterprets something or forgets something he gets help everytime he needs it.

 

[Quickleaf]

So in another thread, an interesting conversation came up; specifically, is there a DM obligation regarding character (PC) abilities? If there is, what exactly is the DM's obligation?

To give you an idea as to the context of this conversation, the genesis was discussing a player in one of my campaigns who has a decided inability to remember that his Fighters have action surge. No matter how many times people (DM, other players) tell him, he just can't seem to remember that he has it and that he can use it.

There is no "one size fits all" answer here. When I see something like this happen repeatedly, it's an indication to me that something isn't working quite right. Since it's unclear where the problem lies exactly, I'd ask questions:

Does the player have trouble parsing the "tax form" like character sheet? Perhaps a simpler or redesigned character sheet would help with remembering the character's abilities?

Does the DM keep interceding so the player doesn't have the opportunity to learn from his or her mistakes? Maybe the DM needs to step back and stop interjecting?

Does the player have experience with a past edition and constantly conflates the rules of that past edition with 5th edition? Maybe the player needs a "teaching" one-shot (either a one-on-one or with small number of players) strictly following 5e rules in order to better grok the rules?

Does the player having a learning disability or life stressor affecting his or her ability to recall? Maybe there's a more experienced rules-focused player who could serve as that gentle reminder for him/her? Maybe there's some accommodation that could be made for any disability?

 

[Shiroiken]

If I remember, then I'll remind the player if something is relevant, but I don't think a DM is obligated to do so for a player.

 

[Sacrosanct]

That sounds frustrating. I'm not bothered by anything the players do really, provided they're trying to achieve the goals of play during the session. What they do outside of the session, including reading up on their character sheets, is not really my concern. They'll pay a price at some point for lack of player skill and perhaps that will encourage them to get better. But if not, that's okay too as long as they're fun to play with otherwise and help us create an exciting, memorable story by playing.

I think it’s part of the social contract. Excluding brand new players of course, because they get a teaching and learning curve. But I as the DM am expected to have the adventure prepared and to be knowledgeable of the rules, and to be able to run the game in a fair manner. And as a good DM, I’m expected to be able to adapt and improvise in ways that bring every player into the game to have fun. Also part of that social contract is that if you’re not a new player, you’re expected to know the basic rules and how the features of your character works. With so many subclasses and new feats, spells, and features coming out, there is no way i as the DM can keep up with everything and have that memorized. That’s player responsibility. Especially since in combat, I’m already trying to keep up with all the abilities of all of the monsters and NPCs.

 

[StormbringerAUS]

I voted for 4 - No obligation. This does not mean I sometimes don't nudge a player (all my players are quite experienced). If they forget to use their familiar to scout I definitely keep my mouth shut.

More of an issue I find canbe the opposite is that they use resources (action, surge, raging, spell slots etc) far too freely and often I have little left to fight the real threat having used them up on the 2 orcs or the zombie. Are you sure you want to do that is not an uncommon question from the DM.

 

[FireLance]

I'd look into mnemonic aids like a cheat sheet of abilities he can use or a set of cue cards containing one ability per card. Basically helping the player to help himself.