Is There a Link between Half Level and the Death of Epic Tier?

[SpydersWebbing]

My point was that the escalated math itself was a problem, especially given the fact that the chances at level don't really change, but you instead alienate the rest of the monster base that you could be able to choose from. I'm not referring to damage and HP, those would be the measure of whether or not something is a true threat, like they always have been.

The point is that half-level is an artificial tack-on that inflates numbers and introduces a truly ridiculous amount of book-keeping that doesn't actually reward you for doing all that work. Your chances of hitting something at your level at 30 is the same as it was at 1. I ask, "why bother changing the numbers then?" Just give them the expanded options and that will be more than enough.

 

[KidSnide]

My point was that the escalated math itself was a problem, especially given the fact that the chances at level don't really change, but you instead alienate the rest of the monster base that you could be able to choose from. I'm not referring to damage and HP, those would be the measure of whether or not something is a true threat, like they always have been.

The point is that half-level is an artificial tack-on that inflates numbers and introduces a truly ridiculous amount of book-keeping that doesn't actually reward you for doing all that work. Your chances of hitting something at your level at 30 is the same as it was at 1. I ask, "why bother changing the numbers then?" Just give them the expanded options and that will be more than enough.

The point of the half-level increments is to represent how the PCs interact with monsters and challenges of different levels. If the PCs do nothing but fight level-appropriate monsters, then, yes - it's a little silly. But sometimes PCs should take the opportunity to stomp lower level challenges, and sometimes PCs should have the opportunity to flee from higher level adversaries.

Anyway, it's not really a lot of bookkeeping. I mean, every other level you add +1 to everything. How hard is that?

Oh, and I really wish WotC added 40-50 paragon and epic level monsters that consist of hordes of common lower level monsters. Why don't we have paragon monsters like "Kobold Warband" and "Company of Hobgoblin Pikemen" and epic level monsters like "Horde of Bloodcrazed Orcs" and "Swarm of Vrocks"? Cutting down dozens (or hundreds!) of enemies that you fought one-on-one at lower levels -- now that's epic!

-KS

 

[SpydersWebbing]

The point of the half-level increments is to represent how the PCs interact with monsters and challenges of different levels. If the PCs do nothing but fight level-appropriate monsters, then, yes - it's a little silly. But sometimes PCs should take the opportunity to stomp lower level challenges, and sometimes PCs should have the opportunity to flee from higher level adversaries.

Anyway, it's not really a lot of bookkeeping. I mean, every other level you add +1 to everything. How hard is that?

Oh, and I really wish WotC added 40-50 paragon and epic level monsters that consist of hordes of common lower level monsters. Why don't we have paragon monsters like "Kobold Warband" and "Company of Hobgoblin Pikemen" and epic level monsters like "Horde of Bloodcrazed Orcs" and "Swarm of Vrocks"? Cutting down dozens (or hundreds!) of enemies that you fought one-on-one at lower levels -- now that's epic!

-KS

Except that we already had a measurement of that: damage and health. 4th's damage and health scales very well, and the attack and defense stuff didn't need to scale for the difference in levels to be felt.

You'd be surprised how many people I've had to teach the game to who hate the +1 to everything, myself included.It's about 90% of the time...

 

[KidSnide]

Except that we already had a measurement of that: damage and health. 4th's damage and health scales very well, and the attack and defense stuff didn't need to scale for the difference in levels to be felt.

If you eliminate scaling to hit and damage, you need to (a) create a new mechanism for ignoring or shedding conditions granted by low-level opponents, (b) seriously scale back conditions from the game or (c) accept the fact that condition granting low-level attacks will be ridiculously effective.

Also, to get the same degree of scaling, you would need to dramatically increase the hit point and damage totals. I would find that in-combat math far more annoying than the out-of-combat math of correctly determining to-hit and damange modifiers.

You'd be surprised how many people I've had to teach the game to who hate the +1 to everything, myself included.It's about 90% of the time...

You are completely correct. I am surprised.

In my experience, it's decision paralysis from the huge number of options (both in-combat and during feat and power selection) that newbies get caught on. That and the incredibly boring-to-read PH1. The complexity of "now you add +1 to everything" always seemed completely trivial in comparison.

YMMV, of course. But, to answer the question in the subject line of this thread: No, I don't believe the half-level adjustment has any significant impact on the death (slow or otherwise) of the epic tier.

-KS