D&D General Is there an increase in "godless" campaign settings?

[Ruin Explorer]

I could respond to some of this, but I'm just going to go ahead and concede to whatever this argument has become. Nothing is going to be accomplished by continuing it.

Up to you, but I think the issue is really going to come down to that the gods in most D&D settings don't match up well with mythological/anthropological/historical views on gods. That doesn't make those views invalid in the abstract of course, but it means that they're rarely applicable to what's going on in D&D. Eberron is one of the few settings where those views do apply. Taladas in Dragonlance tried to take this tack but it kind of relies on ignoring the lore of Anaslon to some extent.

 

[Fanaelialae]

While there were certainly exceptions, I think that many of the early settings followed the FR / Greyhawk / Mystara mold of having defined deities (they were technically Immortals in Mystara, but that's close enough in most respects).

One area where settings that followed have been able to differentiate themselves is in this space. Because, let's face it, not many people want yet another FR clone with a slightly different paint job.

I think that coming up with a fresh approach to religion in a setting (or at least one that hasn't been done to death) is a reasonable place to start. The "agnosticism" of Eberron informs that setting in a number of ways, resulting in a different feel from a more traditional setting.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think that coming up with a fresh approach to religion in a setting (or at least one that hasn't been done to death) is a reasonable place to start. The "agnosticism" of Eberron informs that setting in a number of ways, resulting in a different feel from a more traditional setting.

I'm kind of surprised the Eberron approach isn't more common, because obviously it reflects human experience - people don't know which is right. They might very strongly believe, but they don't know. And in fantasy literature, whilst it is even more frequently godless than RPGs (and often in a more literal way), where religion is present, it tends to be along these lines - people believe, but they don't have proof. The only immediate exception I can think of off-hand is a series of novels based on D&D so that doesn't really count I'd say. Even Gandalf, who is basically literally an angel, seems to be working on faith/belief to a large degree.

It feels weird to call it "agnostic" for me, even though that's obviously accurate, because it feels like this approach should be the default.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I could respond to some of this, but I'm just going to go ahead and concede to whatever this argument has become. Nothing is going to be accomplished by continuing it.

Ruin Explorer is just ranting on how badly FR handles the idea of gods and religion - which is fair because it's really bad.

Most settings in the past 20 years are a lot better about it (simply by not being horrible) but they also go in a ton of different directions, so it's hard to generalize.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Id still be atheist if I found myself on Greyhawk, Mystara or Faerun.

The 'Gods' there arent really Gods, just powerful outsiders. Heck a few of them have been killed by Mortals (or were once mortal).

They dont know anymore behind whats going on than we do.

In Mystara, they're mostly former mortals, which raises the chicken and egg questions even more.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

But Theros is remarkably nuanced. There the "iconoclasts" are legitimate too.

Right, but it's hardly a setting where divinity is pushed off to the side and is unimportant. And even though there are brave skeptics running around, it's a world where adventurers can quite easily learn that the gods are real, whatever one thinks of them as people. And it's a popular setting, not one where customers went "ew, gods."

In other words, a counter-point to the OP.

 

[hopeless]

No everybody needs something or someone to blame.
Now showing their church being far from what you would expect for someone of their alignment, now that is interesting.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

In my homebrew, I've taken the approach that it is unknowable if the gods are real, but I've also played with non-tradition D&D religions (pantheons) so I kinda needed to take that approach. One the main religions is very much monotheistic, but there are various animism, shamanism, polytheism, ancestor cults, etc. religions.

Same thing in my campaign. The dominant religion has some interesting murkiness about its origins in the setting (Ptolus) and until the player characters are much higher level, there's almost no chance they can try to figure out the truth on their own anyway. Which is fine, because the religion itself is much more interesting, with internal struggles in the church and so on, which has already posed problems for the group multiple times.

(Gods, though, are definitely "real" in the sense that they exist, whether or not they're the prime movers of the cosmos, although there is a deep background god who definitely seems to be the prime mover or a prime mover, at least.)

 

[Umbran]

How does it not? The presence of gods, demons, devils, aberrations, fey, etc. all reveal that there exists worlds and realities beyond the mundane and familiar. An invisible world previously unknown is glimpsed by the existence of these creatures.

To a simple fisherman, learning the existence of an aboleth, a powerful aberration from the deep past, would fundamentally shift their worldview.

I mean, that depends on what you think a "simple fisherman" is. Specifically, you presuppose that "simple fishermen" are ignorant of all those things, that they are "previously unknown".

One group I play with is going through Rime of the Frostmaiden - the action takes place in an area where the local food economy is largely based... on fish. There's a preternatural darkness over the entire area that they all know is caused by a deity. And every single town has some magical weirdness going on. While they may not be aware of some particular entity you speak of, they know gods and aberrations and fey exist.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

One group I play with is going through Rime of the Frostmaiden - the action takes place in an area where the local food economy is largely based... on fish. There's a preternatural darkness over the entire area that they all know is caused by a deity. And every single town has some magical weirdness going on. While they may not be aware of some particular entity you speak of, they know gods and aberrations and fey exist.

I assume the primary reason people on Toril study magic is to eventually get the hell off of Toril.