D&D 3E/3.5 Is there ANY way to make whips good using WotC-only 3.5 material?

[RangerWickett]

Aside from using one as a back-up weapon to disarm or trip, I can't think of much use for the whip. 3.5 lacks the whip-dagger, and my DM would not allow the book I wrote about whips, so I'm looking for other suggestions.

What's the ruling for how a flaming whip interacts with armor? Would a flaming whip deal nonlethal fire damage?

 

[Vuron]

Well from a versimilitude perspective whips should be basically worthless in terms of doing damage to an armored (or even heavily clothed) foe. Simply put a whip relies on causing soft tissue damage (and pain of course) but is not really a lethal weapon. Yes you can kill someone through lashings but generally that only happens with a large number of lashes.

As a result it seems that the low non lethal damage of a whip is pretty accurate.

On your second set of questions the bonus damage from flaming, frost etc is lethal energy damage the whip is just a method for delivering that energy damage.

 

[Iku Rex]

Make it "good"? I don't think so.

Make it playable? Probably doable if you have some levels to work with. You'd need some way to get around the "no damage if armor or thick skin" rule. OTTOMH all I can think of is the Deft Strike feat (Drac) and the wraithstrike spell (SC).

Deft Strike requires you to make a Spot check as a standard action and lets you ignore armor and natural armor on one attack. Boost Str, get a level of exotic weapon master (CWar) for Uncanny Blow and use Power Attack. Some charge feats could also boost damage, but by then it's getting rather silly.

Wraithstrike is not as demanding, but even if you Extend it into higher level slots you'll have a limited supply.

In both cases you're still stuck with a -4 penalty if you want to do real damage.

 

[Nifft]

What's the ruling for how a flaming whip interacts with armor? Would a flaming whip deal nonlethal fire damage?

I don't think there's any special rule, so the fire damage resolves normally (not ignored by people with armor).

Whips are "good" if you enjoy tripping people 15 feet away. They're not good if you enjoy killing people solo -- if you work in a team (with a couple of guys who use Glaives to get AoOs on the tripped dude as he gets up), it can be very effective.

It's a team or a trick weapon for sure.

Cheers, -- N

 

[RangerWickett]

Well from a versimilitude perspective whips should be basically worthless in terms of doing damage to an armored (or even heavily clothed) foe. Simply put a whip relies on causing soft tissue damage (and pain of course) but is not really a lethal weapon. Yes you can kill someone through lashings but generally that only happens with a large number of lashes.

As a result it seems that the low non lethal damage of a whip is pretty accurate.

On your second set of questions the bonus damage from flaming, frost etc is lethal energy damage the whip is just a method for delivering that energy damage.

From a verisimilitude perspective, you can't swing a greatsword in a 5-ft. corridor, or break steel doors down with a punch, or swing a spiked chain and hit 24 people surrounding you with a whirlwind attack, but D&D lets you do that. Shuriken don't deliver much more force than a whip (which can slice lizards in half, strip the hide from a cow, or shatter a glass bottle), yet they both deal lethal damage and can hurt people in armor.

Sorry. This is one of my favorite topics to rant about. *grin*

Anyway, regarding energy enhancements on a weapon, if I hit a person in full plate with a flaming whip, I know the whip does no damage, but does the fire?

 

[Sithobi1]

There's the Pyrokineticist class, which gets a flaming whip...uses ranged touch attacks and deals normal Fire damage. Since you apparently get your Str bonus on the damage and can use things like Improved Trip, it would be pretty decent, except you don't get AoOs with it.

 

[hanniball]

Aside from using one as a back-up weapon to disarm or trip, I can't think of much use for the whip. 3.5 lacks the whip-dagger, and my DM would not allow the book I wrote about whips, so I'm looking for other suggestions.

What's the ruling for how a flaming whip interacts with armor? Would a flaming whip deal nonlethal fire damage?

The whip by itself is not a very strong weapon. However, when used in the following combination it becomes pretty devastating:

EWP: Whip, Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Double Hit, Robilar's Gambit

Holding the Whip in your off-hand and a finessable weapon in your main hand, you walk up to an enemy and smack them with your whip. This draws an AoO. With Robila'r Gambit active you get to hit them back. Double Hit lets you whack them with both your main and off-hand weapons, generating another AoO from your opponent. Robilar's Gambit and Double Hit kick in again...this continues for as long as you and your opponent have AoO's remaining.

Of course, you're enemy would have to be pretty retarded to continue taking these AoOs, but it's still kinda cool.

 

[Vuron]

Anyway, regarding energy enhancements on a weapon, if I hit a person in full plate with a flaming whip, I know the whip does no damage, but does the fire?

I'm not sure my previous answer was clear :\ but yeah the bonus energy from the whip doesn't get turned to non-lethal, technically speaking the energy damage is a separate source than the whip's slashing damage.

In terms of laying down the groundwork for whips that do lethal damage you might infer that the +1 flaming whip used by the Balor (with the bells, spikes, etc) creates the model of a whip that does lethal rather than non-lethal damage.

 

[IanB]

I want to say the whip-dagger appears in a sidebar in Fiendish Codex 2? It is in some fairly recent book, anyway.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Anyway, regarding energy enhancements on a weapon, if I hit a person in full plate with a flaming whip, I know the whip does no damage, but does the fire?

Depends on your DM.

Strictly (in a Hypersmurfian way), a flaming whip does (1d3 [Slashing] + 1d6[Fire]) nonlethal damage on a successful hit*, and no damage at all to anyone with armor or "tough" natural armor.

Given your earlier comments, your DM might decide to stick with the strict interpretation.

* - Just like the same whip in the hands of a mid-level rogue might do (1d3 [Slashing] + 3d6 [Slashing]) nonlethal damage on a successful hit, and no damage at all to anyone with armor or "tough" natural armor.