Is there demand for a “tactical” RPG akin to 4e?

[Tun Kai Poh]

On the tactical scifi RPG front, LANCER is doing quite well, and I have been playtesting their fleet combat module, details here:

LANCER: BATTLEGROUP - To Kill the Worthy King

Prelude This is Lancer: Battlegroup! Against the stark black of deep space, the long silhouettes of capital ships drift in tightening gyres, training their guns and missile tubes on enemies hundreds of thousands of kilometers away. Inside their hushed command decks, officers listen to the...

www.enworld.org

LANCER also has a burgeoning fan community - a third-party Kickstarter adventure zine is in progress right now:

Stolen Crown ｜ An Adventure for Lancer RPG

An adventure zine for Lancer RPG set in the frozen wastes of the planet Sparr.

www.kickstarter.com

I've also been following the progress of Filipino tactical fantasy Warring States RPG Gubat Banwa (Warring Nations), and both the martial arts design and artwork are utterly fantastic.

Gubat Banwa First Edition by makapatag

The Martial Epic Fantasy RPG

makapatag.itch.io

 

[Lionblade]

I understand. I'm a fan of 4e, so I get it. And I've also tried to run a campaign somewhat recently.
I'd argue that an OOP edition of the world's biggest RPG still has greater market reach than an indie RPG.
I introduced my wife and several friends to 4E after they came in with 5E. They liked going back to see the history of the game, just like some players like going back to OSR titles.
For some players, convincing them to play anything other than 5E will be a challenge. But it can be a richly rewarding experience, even if you don't stick with the system.
To address bloat, try limiting your players to only Essentials (or only PHB1 or whatever). You don't have to use the entire library.
I've played 4e on Fantasy Grounds, and it worked fine. I'm guessing you could run it on any VTT with limited automation.
But the ship has sailed on 4e. I don't think we'll ever see a game like it again, especially not on the scale of a major RPG.
PF2 is not close to the tactical fun and streamlined gameplay experience of 4E. Level Up seems to have not gone far enough from 5E for my tastes.

Agreed. I do like 5e (don’t get me wrong) and will be reading through Level Up, as it looks very interesting. But, something about 4e draws me in.

Sad that, as you say, that ship’s sails. I run all my games currently in Fantasy Grounds- which seems perfect for 4e.

 

[Retreater]

Agreed. I do like 5e (don’t get me wrong) and will be reading through Level Up, as it looks very interesting. But, something about 4e draws me in.

Sad that, as you say, that ship’s sails. I run all my games currently in Fantasy Grounds- which seems perfect for 4e.

Maybe the real spiritual successor to 4e's tactical play is in miniature gaming and board gaming. Please don't think of this statement as edition warring or belittling 4e fans (because I am one).
When I started RPGs, my intro was HeroQuest (just recently rebooted). Maybe something like that - with some exploration and social scenes between dungeons (or even in some of the rooms)? Even when I was a kid playing it I was tinkering with that game, adding new spells, monsters, character options.
Another example is how my friend is playing the Battletech RPG and putting in the miniatures game for big combats.
Otherwise you might want to consider what you like about 4e and figure out how to put it into another system. I saw on DMs Guild that someone has converted 4e powers to 5e, which can be inserted into that game. Could be worth a look?

 

[soviet]

Curious about people’s thoughts on this. I always liked the tactical aspects of D&D 4e, though didn’t play much of it myself. I think in a lot of ways, 4e suffered due to marketing and the fact that it was so different from D&D 3.5e, yet had the same name.

I’m sure there were many other issues that 4e had which turned away gamers, but I am curious now if there is demand for another game, which takes the best of 4e, and is designed and marketed as a “tactical” RPG. That is to say, an RPG with emphasis on grid-based combat, with depth for character creation, “powers” chosen at different levels (unique to the classes), and of course, a functional “social”/RP mechanics, with related skills, etc.

You've basically described 5e. The major difference between 4e and 3.5e/5e is simply that 4e is transparent about what it's designed for.

 

[prabe]

Maybe the real spiritual successor to 4e's tactical play is in miniature gaming and board gaming. Please don't think of this statement as edition warring or belittling 4e fans (because I am one).

I have no dog in the 4E stuff--I never played it and at this point never will--but it seems to me that things like Gloomhaven might at least scratch the tactical itch. I'm not a big fan of the RPG-lite stuff in Gloomhaven, but tastes differ; and the tactics are ... deep.

 

[MGibster]

I hate to quibble over definitions, but I've been using miniatures and a map for D&D since 3rd edition was released in 2000. So for the last twenty-one years, roughly 2/3rd of my experience with D&D, has been as a tactical RPG.

 

[payn]

I hate to quibble over definitions, but I've been using miniatures and a map for D&D since 3rd edition was released in 2000. So for the last twenty-one years, roughly 2/3rd of my experience with D&D, has been as a tactical RPG.

Im assuming folks are thinking of the marks, and push, and blast elements of 4E that are unique to that edition. I'd love to hear more from folks on this tho.

 

[Davies]

There was an attempt to do something a bit 4E inspired with the Strike! rpg, but AFAIK it hasn't had any new releases since 2016.

 

[Tun Kai Poh]

I already mentioned LANCER and Gubat Banwa, both heavily inspired by 4e, but Tom Parkinson-Morgan (LANCER) has also released a playtest version of the ICON RPG, which uses some of the tactical mechanics of LANCER, together with narrative framework borrowed from Blades in the Dark. The feel of the setting is very much a techno-magical one, with angel-summoning gunslingers, shadow-teleporting assassins and lighting-throwing spellblades. The grid-based combat design has a strong Final Fantasy Tactics influence, but with the same kind of pushes, marks and in-combat healing you'd see in 4e.

There are 12 Jobs (combat classes) and characters can switch Jobs twice in their careers, mixing and matching abilities from their Jobs, somewhat like how LANCER lets you mix and match systems and weapons on your mech. There are 12 levels of advancement, so you can acquire plenty of synergistic abilities by the time you reach maximum level.

ICON playtest by Massif Press

Mythic fantasy in a vast green world

massif-press.itch.io

 

[Aldarc]

I've also been following the progress of Filipino tactical fantasy Warring States RPG Gubat Banwa (Warring Nations), and both the martial arts design and artwork are utterly fantastic.

Gubat Banwa First Edition by makapatag

The Martial Epic Fantasy RPG

makapatag.itch.io

Holy carp! This looks gorgeous. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!