Is there life on Maaaaaaars! (er, Venus)

[Lylandra]

Ah yep, just looked it up
This is intriguing indeed

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

BAH - Ziggy Stardog

There's a stardog waiting in the hall
He'd like to come and meet us
’Cause he thinks we'd throw his ball...

 

[Ryujin]

Sure. But then, I'm questioning the idea measuring how "successful" a species is. There's a value judgement in that. But their existence is really just the result/part of a natural process, right? So's a tropical storm. I suppose that means we should have discussions on which hurricane is more successful?

If you want to compare two species on some metric, that's fine. But just name the metric, rather than obfuscate it as "success". "Success" is a concept devised for humans to sort out their ridiculous social hierarchies.

Length of "reign."

 

[Umbran]

Length of "reign."

Sure, but you realize that even a cursory consideration questions whether that's a meaningful number in and of itself?

Species A was on the planet for one million years. Species B was on the planet for 500,000. So what? What are you supposed to get from this? That A was somehow better at life than B? Okay, fine. Let's say that.

But, what if we look and see that Species A lived in a time of little change in the environment or the other life around it. And Species B lived in a time of great upheaval and change. Does it mean something different now? Now... maybe B was more impressive, for having done the feat it did, considering the time? Okay, fine, that makes sense. Let's say that!

Oh, wait. But we find that while Species B was living in a time of climate upheaval and change... none of the other species around it found much need to change, either. Everyone got through that half-million years okay. So, maybe Species B really isn't all that impressive after all?

Raw and simple data outside of its context doesn't usually reveal a whole heck of a lot about the natural world. If we want to make a declaration, and we find a simple measure right at hand... that's kind of a sign that maybe we are assuming our conclusion from the start, rather than having our mind open to figure out first what our question really ought to be...

 

[Rabulias]

A general guide on how to respond: xkcd: Evidence of Alien Life

It mentions this in the strip, but with the timing I believe it draws its full inspiration from this news.

 

[Tonguez]

Other examples:

10 Oldest Species in the World - Oldest.org

Discover the 10 Oldest Species in the World here. Prepare to be transported into a rich & fascinating history on the oldest species that exist.

www.oldest.org

Yes there are a number of amazing creatures out there, but Ive got a special love of trees and plants in general. Plants were the organism that literally changed the composition of the worlds atmosphere and made it possible for us oxygen-air breathing parasites to exist, the spread of forest involved the active modification of water flows and transport of soil nutirents to the extent that it created entirely new ecosystems.

Human success is seen in the extent to which they are able to adapt the enviroment to meet their ongoing needs. Well on that criteria Plants not only adapted the enviroment, they dominated it to the extent that they became the enviroment in which they (and we) thrive - its just when seen from human scale we often miss the wood for the trees

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

A general guide on how to respond: xkcd: Evidence of Alien Life

It mentions this in the strip, but with the timing I believe it draws its full inspiration from this news.

Yeah. The current reaction in most media sources seems to be cautious enough, but I could see some jumping to conclusions, like they did with that "alternate dimension discovery" earlier this year.

 

[trappedslider]

 

[freyar]

Yeah. The current reaction in most media sources seems to be cautious enough, but I could see some jumping to conclusions, like they did with that "alternate dimension discovery" earlier this year.

OK, this is weird. I have worked in astroparticle physics from time to time, so I keep up reasonably well with the scientific literature, and I've been quite aware of the ANITA neutrino experiment. But I totally missed that some places in the mainstream press were saying that it was evidence of a backward universe!

 

[GMMichael]

Phosphine in the upper atmosphere of Venus. The scientists so far can't come up with a way of having that much phosphine without microbial life or industry (and they're ruling out the latter!)

I don't know about the phosphine, but I'm guessing most of the missing sodium fluoride is going into Venusian toothpaste and municipal water supplies. . . which relies on the industry theory.