Is there no way to stop a spellthief stealing a spell?

[insanogeddon]

Vindictiveness? Useless? You might want to see our game and talk to us before you come out with that sort of nonsense.

She's a very well-built and effective character, and I make sure to let her shine regularly, adding wizards and giving enemies spell-likes even if the encounters in the campaign have none as written. I'm asking if I'm missing a trick to use in one encounter, with a repeat bad guy who has been on the receiving end twice already and has recently gained access to some powerful backers.

So if you can't help, please don't call me names.

You did specify "it doesn't happen very often" I cannot be held responsible for the quality or ammount of data you originally posted.

I did specify a character who is useless 95% of the time, yes I did assume this was the spell thief in question due to the above but my wording implies iff this is not the case its NOT petty or vindictive so I assigned no blame so you needn't take offence.

I can, and did help... heavy fortification on a +1 mithral buckler so does that mean I now can call you names ?

No crit also = polymorph into a plant form depending on your polymorph rules, statue, iron body, foresight.

scrolls anyone?

Evasion = project image (be somewhere inaccesible), similacrum combo, force cage (be in),
Check their = repulsion and they cannot get close,
Nevermind stone skin and fire shield to make it hurt.

...might also be of use despite my advices apparent uselessness !!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

7) Use your environment wisely. Choose to fight the party only in places where you have the advantage. A tight corridor that prevents them from flanking; attacking from the other edge of a chasm keeps them out of melee attack range; judicial use of magical wall spells controls their angles of attack; Grease/Glues/Darkness/Stenches do likewise.

 

[carborundum]

@insanogeddon: sorry mate, total overreaction on my part. Please accept my apologies. And you're right - I also completely forgot that fortification negated sneaks as well as crits. Again, I'm sorry.

I don't want to shaft the player in question, I'm just want one moment of shock. Maybe I'll invent a spell that allows 100% fortification for a fixed number of sneak dice so with the first two attacks the bad guy looks superior, then worried, and then loses, say, two spells. All following sneaks will work perfectly, the bad guy gets one chance to shine, and the player is pleased he beat even specific steps taken to neutralize his best trick.

Disguise: Light armour glamered up to look like Full Plate is a nice one!
Pearl of Power: That's brilliant! "He cast what? But I just stole that!"
Reach: I think I can manage something with that too - cheers!
See the attacker: I'll be sure to put a few points in Sense Motive to avoid Feints too.
Plant form, project image, fire shield... more good stuff (thanks Mr. Not-as-useless-as-I-grumpily-implied insanogeddon)
Control the environment: Fits with the bad guy's general sneakiness and cleverness.
Kill spellthief first: He has bigger beefs with the Forsaker for chatting up his bird, but this has definite benefits!

Thank you everyone, I feel optimistic that I can make it a fitting challenge and with luck a memorable encounter.

 

[insanogeddon]

No dramas I have a knack at offending unconsciously, being unalligned I don't get bothered which is half the problem. Does seem like you try and make the PC shine, more than many DMs would tend to, considering his a recurring villan who has had it happen before its utterly legit for a repulsion spell, plant shape, project image, +6 buckler purchace to be there for next round.

I would recomend using something from the players/DMG direct as players are funny. If you stop 3 sneak attack dice with a spell you create they will cry foul harder and LONG after the campaigns end than if you negated 100% of their sneak attacks with a +6 pretty cheap buckler that they can go home and look upon in their copies of the DMG or Players with beady hateful eyes full of malice and animal cunning and accept that they were outsmarted (no offence meant to players I am going on personal experience and .... when I play I at least am self aware of my own beady hateful eyes full of malice and animal cunning).

 

[carborundum]

Good point! Thanks!

And they do have beady, hateful eyes full of malice and animal cunning. Don't all players?
And if said buckler is made of, say, little fluffy ducks and ...erm... kitten skins... they won't use it back at me either!
(Hmmm, that sounds a tad petty. Whoops!)

... Though the bad guy uses it in one combat, a PC uses it in EVERY combat. Anyway - that's a whole 'nother can o' worms.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Best solution aside from screwing hm out of sneak attack would be using things that are like spellcasters, but don't actually use spells or SLAs. For example, Beholders' eye rays are Su even though they emulate spells. The Lords of Madness book has a lot of different kinds of beholders in it. You can also make up your own similar monsters. I made my own beholder race for a battle in my last campaign.

Another idea: It's roundly considered incredibly broken (I think if properly limited in spell selection it could be balanced compared to a battle sorcerer), but there's the "mage" adaptation of Swordsage from tome of battle. Instead of maneuvers, he learns spells from a restricted thematic list, but...treats them as maneuvers. In other words, they can be recovered mid-battle and used again (on the flip side, he can't ready the same spell twice, he NEEDS to spend a turn getting it back before he can spam it again). Now, it's not made clear what such "maneuvers" would be treated as, but since all maneuvers the classes use are Ex or Su, I'd lean towards labelling all of them as Su abilities.

There may be other examples out there, it's just all I can think of right now.

 

[Shin Okada]

To use sneak attack, he must go closer to the caster. So, use wide battlefields. Or let a mage have initiative-related feats and spells to prevent him from being attacked before he acts. If a mage can act before the spellthief, he will have tons of ways to screw up the spellthief, either by protecting himself or injuring the spellthief.

Let a mage have guards with reach and combat reflexes. Or make a mage also good at melee combat (in offense and defense). Spellthief is not particularly a good melee combatant. A huge dragon with Combat Reflexes and Large and in Charge (Draconomicon) feats will be a tough spell-casting opponent for a spellthielf.

Disarming the spellthief is another good option. A dagger wielder is an easy bait for disarm.

And, attacking the spellthief is always effective. In my experience, spellthief is one of the most vulnerable character type, especially against hit point damage.

AC is not so high. So as HPs. And bad ref save and no evasion means he tend to be injured seriously by area attack spells and abilities. Bad fort save is an easy bait for insta-death/disable spells.

 

[Nedz]

Project Image would help.
Its probably too late but using a Sorceror would mean that the NPC would still have plenty of spell slots left. (This is a bit like the ring of Wizadry idea - only with less implications thereafter)

 

[insanogeddon]

Spell thieves after 5th can eat sp abilities.

Fort saves are normally not an issue after 9th due to absorb spell.

Area effects are a pain assuming you dont have a ring of evasion or armour with all the energy resistances but remember this PC is buffed with greater invis and flight and its hard to predict cunning players.

As a caster I would stand in a force cage, ready to attack when the guy appears or ready to go statue using the spell statue, stand in a web or fog cloud, or an acid fog and have acid resistance on, or just be a disguise selfed plant creature or have a foresight scroll handy, or if I had 4 monsters with reach around me and blind sense I would like to see how brave this spellthief is.