Is this a fair _flavourful_ 0LA Satyr?

[Sigurd]

The Idea here is to have something that isn't more powerful than the other races. I imagine you could have special items, or a prestige class that could turn this satyr into the one in the SRD.





Satyr (Humanoid 0LA Player Race)
http://forums.gleemax.com/report.php?p=14792203

Satyrs As Characters
Satyr characters possess the following racial traits.

Gender: Satyrs are always male.
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Str
Size: Medium Size
Speed: A Satyr without armor has a base speed of 40 feet. He may move this rate in light armor at 3rd level.
Vision: Low-Light vision
Natural Weapon: Headbutt 1d6
Perform Instrument: Satyrs may choose one Sylvan instrument as a class skill (eg, pipes, lyre, drum etc...)
Type: Humanoid - They suffer no special damage from cold iron or steel
Favored Class: (Chosen at 1st level) Bard, Ranger or Barbarian. This might also be setting specific.
Automatic Languages: Sylvan Common

Satyrs are quick to anger and have trouble with self control.

-2 to saves vs. rage
-2 Will save.​

Satyr Hooves are not as stable as feet

Instability (opposite of Dwarf Stability) -2 to resist being bullrushed or tripped.​

Satyrs have an enduring gift from their Fey Heritage.

Moonclad (Su) - A satyr that dances the whole night, naked beneath a full Moon receives a special blessing. He receives a +2 natural armor bonus and +1 luck bonus to all saving throws. This bonus remains until they wear armor or willingly enter a non sylvan place of worship.

Leader of the Dance (Su) - This is a blessing given the recognized leader of a moon dance of at least 18 fey creatures (including the humanoid Satyrs). Bonuses are as Moon Clad only double (+4 ac, +2 Saves). Further a Leader may make a save when entering a place of worship to keep their protections.
The leader of the dance is often the most talented performer or the recognized dominant force among the fey.​

Satyrs lose these gifts entirely so long as they worship non-fey deities.​

Fey Finding - Satyrs may use the survival skill to sense the presence of Fey Portals, Circles and Holy Sites.​

Sigurd

 

[Nifft]

+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Str

Nope. He's a better Bard, Sorcerer or Wilder than any PHB race -- and he will remain thus so long as he has a Charisma bonus.

Speed: A Satyr without armor has a base speed of 40 feet. He may move this rate in light armor at 3rd level.
Vision: Low-Light vision
Natural Weapon: Headbutt 1d6

These are all strong abilities.

Type: Humanoid

He needs a subtype.

-2 to saves vs. rage
-2 Will save.​

What is a "save vs. rage"?

Satyrs have an enduring gift from their Fey Heritage.

The first two of these are going to be annoying for everyone else in the party.

Wizard: "Say, can you take first watch? You've got low-light vision."
Satyr: "Sorry, gotta dance for 8 hours, but I also need 8 hours of sleep."
Wizard: "Wow. And I thought my mandatory nine hours of downtime was harsh."

You could instead give them a Luck bonus to Perform, Bluff, Diplomacy and Tumble when naked and in direct moonlight.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Sigurd]

1) I hear you about stat imbalance. That was sort of inherited from the beginning of the process. I'm really tempted to try and keep this. (I know its not simply balanced). If you'll notice the favoured class is not Sorcerer or Wilder. Bard would benefit but I have very few players that ever play the bard. .

2) Strong abilities - Dwarves have strong abilities too

3) Humanoid type is a valid choice in the SRD. Where do I need subtypes ?

4) Save vs Rage isn't well explained. I really thought it would apply in the event a character was trying to save vs Raging or fits of great anger.

5) The enduring gifts are perpetual until discharged. Its a role played limitation. If the character wears armor, its mostly a either\or choice. The race has to stay out of the holy centers for non fey deities to keep their special bonuses. Presumably this race would give up those abilities entirely as a holy figure of another deity. (I'll add that.)

Exhaustion or elation would be mostly setting specific - a good dance would energize. You are right though, this is more fussy than the other races. Its a gift with a price.

 

[Nifft]

1) I hear you about stat imbalance. That was sort of inherited from the beginning of the process. I'm really tempted to try and keep this. (I know its not simply balanced). If you'll notice the favoured class is not Sorcerer or Wilder. Bard would benefit but I have very few players that ever play the bard. .

Favored Class is irrelevant if you don't multi-class. And Sorcerers have very little motivation to multi-class.

2) Strong abilities - Dwarves have strong abilities too

True. Dwarf should be considered the the limit in terms of how strong a race is -- not the average.

3) Humanoid type is a valid choice in the SRD. Where do I need subtypes ?

So Rangers can choose you as a Favored Enemy and so Bane weapons work against you. All humanoids have at least one subtype.

4) Save vs Rage isn't well explained. I really thought it would apply in the event a character was trying to save vs Raging or fits of great anger.

So... never? Seriously, are you using a rule source which has such a thing in it? (And don't say Frenzied Berserker, because you shouldn't be allowing those in the first place.)

5) The enduring gifts are perpetual until discharged. Its a role played limitation. If the character wears armor, its mostly a either\or choice. The race has to stay out of the holy centers for non fey deities to keep their special bonuses. Presumably this race would give up those abilities entirely as a holy figure of another deity. (I'll add that.)
Exhaustion or elation would be mostly setting specific. But you are right this is more 'fussy' than the other races. Its a gift with a price.

Ah, gotcha. That is interesting. So they've got a nice little bonus for most of the adventure, then they enter the evil temple and BAM! Kinda evil, but decent.

Cheers, -- N

 

[szilard]

Satyrs in the SRD don't have more than +2 stat bonuses, anyway. In my mind, they could be lost.

How about:

- Type: Humanoid (satyr)
- Medium size.
- A satyr’s base land speed is 40 feet.
- Low-light vision.
- Racial Skills: Satyrs have a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Perform, and Spot checks.
- Natural Weapons: Head butt (1d4).
- Fey Blood: For all effects related to race, a satyr is considered a fey.
- Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome.
- Favored Class: Bard.

You could make the other stuff race-specific feats.

-Stuart

 

[Blue]

About +2 LA

Let's just go through.

+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Str​

As mentioned, these are unbalanced. You can work with this. The rest of your special abilities need to be a NET PENALTY to make up for this. Not as strong as dwarves.

Also as mentioned, as the only +0 LA race with +Chr, they make work really well with classes that use those stats. Even taking out some that will be hurt by the strength like Paladin, these make strong bards and even stronger sorcerers. So much that with the other bonuses (natural armor, extra move, and all the other goodies), that their isn't much reason to play a sorcerer of any other race.

BTW, between natural armor from the ceremony and the +2 Dex, these are really good unarmored. Say monk, or sorcerer as mentioned.

Balance tip - when you can go through the classes that are a good fit, and see people making hard choices if they want that race or another, it's balanced. If someone wants to play a class and there really is only one mechanical default, that needs to be adjusted.

Speed: A Satyr without armor has a base speed of 40 feet. He may move this rate in light armor at 3rd level.​

You should mention speed otherwise (30?). This works a bit odd. For instance, all characters EXCEPT 1st-2nd level Satyrs can use the tumble skill in light armor. (Tumble works if you aren't slowed by your armor.)

This is a powerful ability. Remember, you want a net positive stat bonus, you need to have a net penalty with everything else, so ever ability like this needs to have a correspondingly powerful weakness.

Vision: Low-Light vision​

Another ability to offset.

Natural Weapon: Headbutt 1d6​

Another ability to offset. And it means never being able to be disarmed all the way, always threatening, etc.

Perform Instrument: Satyrs may choose one Sylvan instrument as a class skill (eg, pipes, lyre, drum etc...)​

Nice and flavorful. Do remember that perform works by category, not instrument.

Favored Class: (Chosen at 1st level) Bard, Ranger or Barbarian. This might also be setting specific.​

This is more powerful then every race except Half Elf and Human, who get a "Any" as a powerful special ability.

Automatic Languages: Sylvan Common​

Makes sense.

Satyrs are quick to anger and have trouble with self control.
-2 to saves vs. rage
-2 Will save.​

The save to rage comes up very VERY infrequently - perhaps never in some campaigns. There are a few spells that would qualify and that's about it. The -2 Will save is a decent penalty, though multiclassing (easier with the choice of favored class) can get rid of this fairly quickly. (Bard will give +2, Cleric likes the +2 Chr and will give +2). But it is a real penalty.

Satyr Hooves are not as stable as feet
Instability (opposite of Dwarf Stability) -2 to resist being bullrushed or tripped.​

Okay, another penalty, though small. If you stopped here, you still would need to add more penalty to make up for the unbalanced stats. But you still have more.

Moonclad (Su) - A satyr that dances the whole night, naked beneath a full Moon receives a special blessing. He receives a +2 natural armor bonus and +1 luck bonus to all saving throws. This bonus remains until they wear armor or willingly enter a non sylvan place of worship.​

Effectively +2 Natural Armor and +1 luck to save most of the time. Halflings get +1 luck as a powerful ability (and the FR Strongheart Halfligns give that up for a bonus feat.) So the +1 luck to saves is worth a feat, as is the +2 NA. Balance needs to deal with worst case, not average case, so no reduction for the armor or "willingly" entering worship.

Leader of the Dance (Su) - This is a blessing given the recognized leader of a moon dance of at least 18 fey creatures (including the humanoid Satyrs). Bonuses are as Moon Clad only double (+4 ac, +2 Saves). Further a Leader may make a save when entering a place of worship to keep their protections.
The leader of the dance is often the most talented performer or the recognized dominant force among the fey.​

So ... an adventuring Satyr declares a dance one evening. He's the most talented (read: only) performer, and he gets to double the bonuses.

That needs to be adjusted. At the very least, have a minimum number of participants, more then an adventuring party (say 12). Require a minimum number of ranks of perform (dance), say also 12. This keeps it still meaningful at higher levels without leaving it easily abusable.

Fey Finding - Satyrs may use the survival skill to sense the presence of Fey Portals, Circles and Holy Sites.​

Another ability, but flavorful and not too powerful.

As written except assuming the minimum participants and ranks of perform for Leader of the Dance, I'd put this about +2 LA right now.

 

[Nifft]

That needs to be adjusted. At the very least, have a minimum number of participants, more then an adventuring party (say 12). Require a minimum number of ranks of perform (dance), say also 12. This keeps it still meaningful at higher levels without leaving it easily abusable.

*psssst!* He does, and it's 18.

Still, I think the whole Leader thing can go away and not change anything except DM and player annoyance.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Sigurd]

I hear you guys and I'm really taking it it. Problem is that I really think this thing, as stated, has the chime of a real race.

The stats are unbalanced but very fey.

I imagine these guys are sort of like fallen Fey on walkabout. They aren't working for any court or noble power and so they have dimmed, but they have free will. I think that's interesting.

So Type humanoid, I'll take including the broader vulnerability. This satyr would have to regain their fey status to be safe (even to procreate I think) so a sense of being extra mortal I actually like.

The -2 vs rage I like but its poorly said. - any help here is appreciated.

The 'Moonclad' ability, in my game world is really lovely flavour. I like this ability more than the whole race truth be told.

The Leader of the Dance is just the logical extension.

I could make this a demi-fey feat.

Sigurd


On the WOTC boards they are saying this race is underpowered and needs natural armor. Here its overpowered.

 

[Sigurd]

Unnamed Fey

Unnamed Fey

Only the most ambitious or foolish of the fey subjects would tear themselves from their lands and homes. So it is that the headstrong Satyr will very rarely walk among the lands of men. To do so they renounce their duties to the fey courts and cast themselves beyond the the help and company of their kin.
All fey bear a name that they are given by their respective courts. It is their offering of fealty and an oathbond. Fey of good standing, preserve and further their world with their actions by staying in Fey Lands and attending their respective courts. Yet this bond can be severed by monarch or subject if one is brave enough to do so. Without this bond to tie them to the fey lands a subject cannot claim the protection of any court. They cannot be tracked by the court of their birth and they lose the fey type. They are humanoids, free to wander the lands of men living and aging as humans do.
Six times they must renounce their birthright and then they will become unnamed. Perhaps they stay in elven settlements where their differences are tolerated or perhaps they take up the company of great adventurers and heroes. Some are unnamed by vengeful Fey royalty and cast adrift into the mortal world. Others break their ties for greater secrecy and toil in our midst.

 

[Nifft]

I hear you guys and I'm really taking it it. Problem is that I really think this thing, as stated, has the chime of a real race.

Of course you do. You wrote it that way in the first place.

Try justifying it (to yourself). Put it next to other races and figure out how many classes it does better in, how many it does worse in, and how many it's just different in.

If there are classes for which your races is just plain better than all other races, it's poorly designed. Yes, this means as a general rule no mental stat boosts, since primary spellcasters depend on pretty much just one stat (plus Con and Dex which everyone needs).

The stats are unbalanced but very fey.

Hey, far be it from me to stomp on your race. Just pick one: "very fey", or LA +0. It's not a death sentence to have LA +1, and it opens up a lot of room for cool racial features, including mental ability boosts.

I imagine these guys are sort of like fallen Fey on walkabout. They aren't working for any court or noble power and so they have dimmed, but they have free will. I think that's interesting.

Sure, but it's also irrelevant to balance. You could use Half-Elf stats and say the same thing (but don't, Half-Elves are too weak).

The 'Moonclad' ability, in my game world is really lovely flavour. I like this ability more than the whole race truth be told.

It's fine, just explain the duration better.

The Leader of the Dance is just the logical extension.

This I don't see at all. How is it necessary, let alone logical? Other races don't get that kind of boost -- "If your party is at least 7 Dwarves, you get 120 ft. darkvision!" --

Since it's ENTIRELY at the DM's discretion how many fey show up to a nightly dance, I don't like it -- it will be the cause of meta-game conflict (player vs. DM) rather than in-game conflict (PC vs. environment / monsters / NPCs).

On the WOTC boards they are saying this race is underpowered and needs natural armor. Here its overpowered.

Really it's just the +2 Charisma that's overpowered. The rest seems fine.

In fact, you could drop the penalties and it's probably fine.

Cheers, -- N

PS: You should make note of his implicit penalties, though: lack of helmet and boots slots.