is this a valid tactic for shutting down a caster

[Rystil Arden]

This, you certainly can do. The Ready action is a standard action, and in a turn you can take a move action and a standard action, so there's definitely nothing preventing you moving as your move action, and then Readying as your standard action.

So in Round 1, Bob moves alongside Xaxos as a move action, and Readies a move action for if Xaxos moves outside the radius of the spell. Xaxos moves 20 feet, and as he goes to move further, the readied action triggers, and Bob moves alongside him again. Xaxos has ten feet of movement left - still within the spell - and then can either take a move action or a standard action. He can't cast, since he's still Silenced, so he moves another 30 feet, taking him 20 feet outside the spell radius.

In round 2, Bob moves 30 feet, putting Xaxos back inside the spell, and Readies again. Xaxos moves 10 feet then triggers the Ready; Bob moves back adjacent; Xaxos finishes his movement, still just inside the spell. Again, he has a move or standard action left, so he moves again, getting 30 feet outside the spell, and he still hasn't been able to cast.

This time, Bob has a problem - he needs to double move to get adjacent this time. But bear in mind that Xaxos has had to move 120 feet in a straight line so far to bring that situation about. How big is the area where all this is taking place? Eventually, he has to hit a wall, right?

-Hyp.

Hmmm....You may be able to save on those lost 10 feet each round if Bob readies for when Xaxos finishes moving.

 

[evilbob]

I've hidden my answer to that a little too well:
...

Thank you for that excellent explanation. That is exactly how I feel as well; I completely agree. I think that interpretation is precisely what I will use.

The only counter-point I could even come up with is that since casting a scroll is a standard action... but I honestly don't even care. I like what you said better.


Lord Zardoz, Hyp, et al: I'll explain again how I see the "always stay next to someone with a readied action" routine; please feel free to point out if I'm interpreting anything incorrectly.

First, our only asumption: both Xaxos and Bob (from now on: X and B) move at the same speed, or B has a greater move than X. (If X moves faster than B, then this hypothetical situation will not work.)

Note: X is the caster, B is the silencer.

round 1
- B gets close, readies action to silence
- X casts, triggers B's action; X takes remaining move action to move out of range of the spell (but has no more actions)

round 2
- B moves next to X, readies action to move with
- X moves, triggers B's action to move with; X and B are now at the same spot; X takes a 2nd move action and moves away (and out of spell's range)

round 3
- goto round 2

In this example, X -will- be able to leave the silenced area each round, but never with enough action left over to cast a spell (unless that spell is a swift or immediate action). B will always move with X, and X will never move far enough away to escape.

Again, though, anything that allows X to fool B's ability to follow him - or if he just flat out runs - will ruin this tactic.

(If "readies an action to move with" is not a good enough way to say that, it could be worded so that B would move to X as soon as X has taken a move action to move away. That way, no matter how far X moved using a single move action, before he could cast B would interupt his action and move to him. But I am honestly not concerned about the minutia of how someone could "ready an action to follow" someone else, because it seems fair enough that it could be done.)

 

[evilbob]

Just to be more specific:

Bob readies an action to follow Xaxos.
Xaxos takes a double move.
Bob takes a half move. Xaxos is probably still out of range of the Silence spell.
Xaxos blasts bob.

Not in the same round, he can't. And between the double move and the time he can blast, Bob moved closer and readied an action to follow him.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Just to be more specific:
Not in the same round, he can't. And between the double move and the time he can blast, Bob moved closer and readied an action to follow him.

This depends on whether your using the correct rules for moving + readied action (which it turns out I was not at the time I made the post to which you prefer).

How about this then, though it is a bit meta game, and depends on Xaxos figuring out Bobs ready trigger.

A: Xaxos moves clear and readies a spell to cast if Bob moves.
B: Xaxos readies a move action if Bob takes a non move action

Scenario A:
Bob readies an action to move adjacent to Xaxos if Xaxos casts a spell.
Xaxos moves out of range, Readies an action to cast a spell if Bob moves close.
> New Round <
Bob starts to move next to Xaxos, triggers Xaxos's readied action.
Xaxos casts his spell, and blasts Bob.
Bob is now adjacent to Xaxos

Above will not work if Bob is just following Xaxos when Xaxos tries to move.

Scenario B:
Bob readies an action to follow Xaxos if Xaxos moves away.
Xaxos moves away and readies an action to move if Bob does anything other than move.
Bob follows Xaxos
> above repeats until Bob decides to try to attack.
Bob does not follow Xaxos
Xaxos moves out of silent area.
Bobs turn is now after Xaxos, and Bob has no readied action.
Xaxos blasts bob.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[irdeggman]

B: Xaxos readies a move action if Bob takes a non move action

Insufficient detail for a ready action. I would never allow it since it is far too open ended. Heck Bob "breathing" sets off the ready action.

As you have phrased it, any action not listed in the "Move Action" section of Table 8-2 qualifies - including "speaking" and a 5 ft step.

 

[eamon]

Insufficient detail for a ready action. I would never allow it since it is far too open ended. Heck Bob "breathing" sets off the ready action.

As you have phrased it, any action not listed in the "Move Action" section of Table 8-2 qualifies - including "speaking" and a 5 ft step.

You're right, it's too open ended. But it's mechanically identical to "following someone", and conceptually, I have no problem with evil_bob's "readies an action to move with" (i.e. following someone). So, I'd call it ready an action to follow, and let it work such that you ready a move action which triggers as soon as the creature you're following has finished his move action.

Nice about this model is also that naturally allows two hustling creatures to stay within close distance of each other, but that two running creatures aren't that reliably within close distance of each other (which is exactly how I'd imagine it - if you're just lightly jogging you're easy enough to follow and never fall more than a few feet behind, but if you're sprinting, the odd gap now and then between curves might be quite a bit larger). It also pretty believably deals with attacks of opportunity - that is, the follower has a slight advantage.

 

[irdeggman]

You're right, it's too open ended. But it's mechanically identical to "following someone", and conceptually, I have no problem with evil_bob's "readies an action to move with" (i.e. following someone). So, I'd call it ready an action to follow, and let it work such that you ready a move action which triggers as soon as the creature you're following has finished his move action.

Nice about this model is also that naturally allows two hustling creatures to stay within close distance of each other, but that two running creatures aren't that reliably within close distance of each other (which is exactly how I'd imagine it - if you're just lightly jogging you're easy enough to follow and never fall more than a few feet behind, but if you're sprinting, the odd gap now and then between curves might be quite a bit larger). It also pretty believably deals with attacks of opportunity - that is, the follower has a slight advantage.

Yes but the trigger is "he moves away" not "he takes a non-move action". There is a pretty large difference in the level of specificity on the "trigger" - which is the most important part here, IMO.

 

[evilbob]

How about this then, though it is a bit meta game, and depends on Xaxos figuring out Bobs ready trigger...

I am sure there are multiple ways to foil this tactic if it is not allowed to get started. That's really not my major concern here, though.

 

[moritheil]

You don't threaten while casting, and since the enemy's casting was the trigger, when the cleric's readied casting occurs, the enemy does not threaten.

When the cleric's readied action goes off, it precedes the action that triggered it. Thus the enemy is not casting yet, but is about to cast.

 

[Hypersmurf]

When the cleric's readied action goes off, it precedes the action that triggered it. Thus the enemy is not casting yet, but is about to cast.

It interrupts the action that triggers it, and is resolved before it.

If the cleric is not casting when the readied action takes place, how does the attack force a Concentration check?

-Hyp.