Is this party underequipped?

[StalkingBlue]

My campaign has run with three PCs for over a year, and I agree with what several people have already stressed here: having only three players instead of four makes a big difference.

For one thing, your party currently has only 11 total levels instead of the 16 total that a party of 4 PCs of level 4 would have. That's even lower than a level 3 party composed of four PCs!
So even by level total, they are barely equivalent to a level 3 "standard" party.

For another, as there are only three of them, the party gets only 3 chances each round to hit the baddies, rather than 4. Also, one PC going down reduces their firepower by 33%, not only by 25%.
This means when things start going downhill because they are having some bad rolls in a row, they'll go a damn lot faster than with a four-PC group.

I have learnt to treat a 3-PC party as even a little lower-powered than a 4-PC party with their equivalent level total. Things worked well then, even without a secondary PC or NPC to fill out the ranks. (We didn't like that solution either, for the same reasons that have already been stated.)

Which means ....

spoilers ahead

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spoiler warning ends

... that at their current level, that final encounter with Nightscale should be out. Unless you want to play her far below her abilities, which would cheat the players out of a wonderful challenge - a little later.

Give them a chance to pick up some more experience elsewhere, then let them come back. Or else delete the passageways to that final part of the dungeon and make the whole thing into a new dungeon all of its own.

Have fun!

 

[jmucchiello]

You might want to add an NPC to the party to help with matters. I don't recall if there are any good NPC possibilities in Forge of Fury, though the party could retreat back to the city to find some. Otherwise, drop an NPC in the caves from another adventuring party that got it's rear end handed to them by either the roper or the dragon. That'll give your players the small advantage of knowing what's ahead of them and choosing to either avoid the conflict entirely or get prepared for the monster's attacks.

I like this idea, myself. Since they are headed for the Trog's have him be their captive. Make him a paladin of pelor so they can trust him (trog's have his equipment and some equipment from one of his other party members: A +1 weapon for the ranger, some potions and scrolls). They definitely need another body to help them out.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Underequipped?

A little bit--the ranger is somewhat light on equipment.

The cleric and wizard are probably pretty close to the right spot.

Understaffed? Definitely. (It's also worth noting that the wizard being multiclassed doesn't help matters--the standard CRs assume a party of four characters including a single classed arcane spellcaster (who is much more powerful than a multi-classed one)). I'll second the paladin of pelor suggestion. (Unless your group isn't naturally inclined to act like a paladin would--in that case, the paladin would either have to take a leadership role in the party (it's bad for an NPC to do this) or leave people wondering what it is that makes him a paladin). In that case, a true neutral or chaotic neutral fighter/cleric of Farlanghan might be a better choice. He could still act as the party's conscience if the party veered wildly off track, but otherwise could be a pretty laid back follower who went with the flow and nobody would think he was acting out of character.

Arcane trickster worthless?!? It's one of the stronger prestige classes available. Most of the complaints about it are that it's overpowered (although I think the prerequisites balance it out). What about it don't you like?

 

[nyrfherdr]

I don't disagree with the sentiments here.
If you can't add a character to bring the group to 4, you need to slow things down a bit.

You really need to let the characters get ahead of the curve in levels and equipment before you send them beyond the Troglodytes.
I do think you should put some healing potions into the Trog Treasure and maybe have a few more specifically useful magic items, but the team really needs to level up at least once if not twice.

I ran a group of 3 through the Forge, but I made sure they were level 6 before we started. Only a couple of encounters were 'easy' at that level, the rest stayed just as tough as they needed to be. And the group had to run from the Dragon. They haven't decided to return yet...

One idea is for reinforcements to arrive above. Maybe a long term scouting party come back. It'll give you a chance to create some encounters, or introduce an NPC if you choose to go that route.

Sorry for the long post.
Good luck

 

[Rel]

SPOILERS ABOUND:

I don't know how heavily the Ranger is geared toward 2-weapon-fighting, but I know there is a +1 Bastard Sword in the Glitterhame. It would at least be useful for dealing with DR later on (since they already overcame the Gricks).

The Duergar are going to be a helluva fight regardless and it could really turn ugly if they reinforce and bring all their numbers at once.

As far as equipment goes in general, I think the ranger seems a little light and the Cleric and Wiz/Rogue seem about right.

I don't think you need to add a fighter necessarily. The Ranger and Cleric should be able to handle the fighting pretty well if they play it smart and the Rogue looks optimized for darting in to sneak attack with the rapier when she gets a flanking opportunity.

I play in a group of 4 guys which means that we almost always have 3 PC's. When I ran Forge of Fury, I had a barbarian NPC along to help out the group (Ranger, Rogue/Sorcerer and Druid). But the key seems to be, not how many attacks the party can make in a round, but do they have a means of breaking off the battle on their own terms if necessary.

I'd say the easiest way to accomplish this would be by Arcane spell selection. Expeditious Retreat (preferably in the form of a potion) or even better, Web are both excellent ways to hold up the bad guys while you retreat and regroup.

 

[Klaus]

Thanks for all the suggestions! Here is a bit more info:

The ranger really likes Two-Weapon Fighting (started with battleaxe/hand axe, but switched to swords). But he's not very strong (Str12), so you can where the Str-draining creatures (Trog stench, roper) can do most damage. He usually tries using both weapons for a couple of rounds, but if hit he uses Off-Hand Parry to boost his AC a bit. Highest score: Dex 16. Lowest: Cha 8

The cleric adores summoning monsters (she got Augment Summoning). Unless I'm very mistaken, she'll summon aquatic creatures to fight the roper or dragon (specially the dragon... a celestial medium shark can do quite some damage, and a triton can be of great assistance). Highest Score: Wis 16. Lowest: Dex 8

The wiz/rogue started as a wizard, but when asked to assign abilities, my wife chose Dex over Int, which intrigued me. When they ventured into the Sunless Citadel, she got into a lot of combat (spells ran out), so at level 3 she took one level of rogue, mainly for weapon and armor proficiencies. She can do quite some damage by coupling true strike or cat's grace with sneak attack, but she is loathe to spend her spells. Highest Score: Dex 16. Lowest: Str 8.



My main problem with the Arcane Trickster is that Ranged Legerdemain thing. Instead of being an ability (that takes up so many levels), why not say that at 1st level an AT can use Open Locks, Disable Device and Pick Pockets through Mage Hand, albeit at -5? And that opens several levels of abilities (and sneak attack increases a lot, even though this is not an assassin-type class). Of all the classes in T&B, I think a tweaked bladesinger (from the web-enhance) would work best, but I'm not quite sure.

The cleric will probably stay single-classed.

The ranger might be tempted to follow a PrClass. I was thinking of making a PrClass like some "Druidical Knight of Ehlonna" or some such, add some combat prowess while still increasing spellcasting.

They'll probably level up during the next session, so the cleric will get Summon Monster III and stuff. Maybe I should try and convince them to head back to town and rest a while (zero-rule: leveling takes a time in days equal to new level -1, so four days to level into 5th).

 

[Xeriar]

Indeedy, I would second the comment that the ranger is a little light on equipment.

As for numbers, there is a squares rule to determine effectiveness. Of people of equivelant strength, two people are four times as good as one (Think about it - they attack twice as much and take twice the damage). Three people are nine times, four are sixteen.

Basically, that means your three person party is little more than half as effective as a four person party of equivelant level.

This mechanic was discovered by a British captain in WWII who studied a lot of the battles, I forget who.

 

[Uruush]

I went through a Scarred Lands version of Forge of Fury, (Slithern and Wrack instead of Trogs and Black) with four characters who were better equipped than your three character party. The barbarian and the bard were killed, the paladin and rogue/ranger barely made it out alive. I've read a few reviews since then that say the Forge of Fury is an absolute meat grinder unless modified heavily. Good luck!