Is this possible?

[Mr. Draco]

Can you permancy an empowered bull's strength/fox's cunning/eagle's splendor/etc... ?

 

[kreynolds]

Technically, the only way to find out is to go ahead with the research and find out in the end. The rules fully allow it, but ultimately, also by the rules of permanency or researching any new spell, the choice is up to your DM.

Would I allow it? Sure.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

You would? Wow ... I think it would be waaaay out of hand to allow that.

Considering it would require FIVE WISH spells to grant a +5 inherent bonus to an ability score, I think a permanent boost of 5 points to an ability score by a 5th level spell is just a tad outrageous.

 

[Henry]

You are forgetting two things, Lucius:

1. It's an enhancement bonus, and doesn't stack with other enhancement bonuses, such as belt of giant strength or gauntlets of ogre power.

2. Permanent doesn't mean it cannot be dispelled. THe first successful dispel magic the PC gets hit with will bring down the bull's strength.

 

[Storm Raven]

You would? Wow ... I think it would be waaaay out of hand to allow that.

Considering it would require FIVE WISH spells to grant a +5 inherent bonus to an ability score, I think a permanent boost of 5 points to an ability score by a 5th level spell is just a tad outrageous.

While I agree with you that it would be somewhat overpowered, it isn't as bad as you think.

It's not an inherent bonus, it is an enhancement bonus, just like the bonus granted by belts of giant strength, gloves of dexterity and headbands of intellect and so on. This means that the bonus does not stack with those items. It is also dispellable. It also probably will cost significantly more in xp outlay than the equivalent item would cost to make.

So while I agree it is somewhat overpowered, it isn't quite as bad as you might think.

 

[Darklone]

I guess I would allow it if the players wish to throw away hard earned experience that way (incoming dispel magicks... ARGH!)

But after reading the spell description (permanency) I don't think it's on the list of allowed spells.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

Good points, all. I'd forgotten about that. But you're right, since it's 1500 XP to cast Tongues ... I'd have to up the XP cost for this to be pretty high, probably more than the item creation cost of a Belt o' Giant Strength.

 

[Bastoche]

But you belt slot, head slot, glove slot, cloak slot, etc would all be free... You could wear a monk's belt, wings of flying, circlet of persuasion, glove of storing while having the benefits of the afore mentionned magic items.

 

[kreynolds]

I'd have to up the XP cost for this to be pretty high, probably more than the item creation cost of a Belt o' Giant Strength.

It would be 2,000XP for being a 4th level spell. The permanency spell already covers this. Here's how they break down...

For spells that you can put on yourself, it's 500XP per level, with lvl 0 being 250XP...

For spells that you can put on yourself, another creature, or an object, it's 500XP per level, with lvl 0 being 250XP...

For spells that can be cast on objects or areas only, it's 500XP per level, with lvl 0 being 500XP as well.

Remember, by the rules, if your pemanent empowered bull's strength is successfully dispelled by a caster higher level than you were at the time you placed the spell on yourself, it isn't merely suppressed, but completely dispelled. In other words, it really isn't that bad.

 

[Caliban]

Remember, by the rules, if your pemanent empowered bull's strength is successfully dispelled by a caster higher level than you were at the time you placed the spell on yourself, it isn't merely suppressed, but completely dispelled. In other words, it really isn't that bad.

Where exactly is this rule stated? I thought that any successfull dispel magic would end it.