Is Thundercats anime?

[GreyLord]

I think it's more complex than that. Many of the leaders in japanese animation got their starts on Thundercats, The Last Unicorn, and other Rankin/Bass shows.

The same cannot be stated for any other American cartoon, including the aforementioned GI Joe and Transformers.

For starters the Head animators and people in charge of the art were Japanese...NOT americans. The overall studio was japanese. The direction and production were wholly American however.

This isn't the case for the American cartoons such as He-man, GI-Joe, Transformers, etc.

You can see direct similarities between Rankin/Bass animation and the animation out of Japan later (probably because the animators that led the industry many times came from Rankin Bass somewhere in their background, or influenced others who did Japanimation from that time period). This is particularly clear in the Last Unicorn's animation.

However, Thundercats was created FOR WESTERN audiences, so as someone says...for Americans. The producers were American...hence by Americans...for Americans.

Of course, that creates some confusion. Much of what is called anime today is actually BY americans...but directed both towards Japanese and American Cartoon aficiendos.

Robotech was produced By Americans for Americans (I actually prefer Macross far more). I know many would call Robotech Anime.

I'd say the water is murky about whether Thundercats qualifies as Anime. I know many consider it one of the first anime's in existence.

I'd say it's even murkier about Robotech. It has similar backgrounds, but with a similar idea of By Americans...for Americans.

Overall however, I'd say that the influence Thundercats has had on the Anime coming from Japan is actually quite noticeable...especially considering what some of those animators eventually went on to do, and what they've done since.

In the same light, the actual ANIMATORS who worked on the three series that made Robotech (and by that I mean those who drew the original JAPANESE cartoons, such as Macross from which Robotech was stolen) were also quite influencial later on japanese animation.

Of course, when talking about Anime as in the West, as opposed to Anime in Japan, one also has to consider the incredible influence Ecchi and Hentai had upon Western audiences and how that also influenced what came out of Japan and entered into the US and Europe and the artstyles that became favored amongst those in the West as opposed to those in the East.

Then later on the influence of Pokemon and it's impact on the East and West. Some of the older crowd would probably say Pokemon had a negative influence on the direction of Anime that comes Westward...while I'm positive many of the newer Anime fanatics would say that it had a Postive influence.

For the record, I'm not an Anime fan. If my tastes are any indication, with what I enjoy being the test...Thundercats is not anime because I enjoy watching it. The Last Unicorn may be since I can't stand it. I do enjoy Macross and Record of Lodoss War. Other than that I haven't really enjoyed much anime. I do appreciate the animation however/artwork. That's about the extent of my interests.

Oh yeah, I also enjoyed Iria/Zeiram from a while back...when I saw it. I am into cartoons and animation overall however. Might call me somewhat of a Cartoon addict...but I still have kids so still have someone to blame when I'm caught watching it.

 

[pawsplay]

Thundercats, HOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgTMNO0PJxY]YouTube - Thundercats - Lion-o summons the sword of omens[/ame]

 

[RainOfSteel]

Does this look like an anime?

[...]

I say yes.

I say no. Looks aren't everything. Once you start watching Thundercats, it screams USA-cartoon.

For the old serial:
Thundercats was as anime as He-Man,

Only in that He-Man wasn't anime at all. He-Man doesn't just scream USA-cartoon, it thunders it.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Of course, that creates some confusion. Much of what is called anime today is actually BY americans...but directed both towards Japanese and American Cartoon aficiendos.

I'm curious of examples of this.

I'd say the water is murky about whether Thundercats qualifies as Anime. I know many consider it one of the first anime's in existence.

That would be crazy. Anime started at least as far back as the 60s. That's two decades removed!

 

[Umbran]

Folks,

The OP asked the question in the context of what system would be good for a Thundercats RPG. Most of you seem to be ignoring that context.

If this conversation's going to continue down the line of definitions of "anime" in terms of who made it and where, I'm going to slide to his over into the Media forum, with all the other discussions of, "What fits in this genre of media?" go.

If you're going to return to the question of turning it into an RPG, I'll leave it here in General.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Robotech was produced By Americans for Americans (I actually prefer Macross far more). I know many would call Robotech Anime.

I'd say the water is murky about whether Thundercats qualifies as Anime. I know many consider it one of the first anime's in existence.

I'd say it's even murkier about Robotech. It has similar backgrounds, but with a similar idea of By Americans...for Americans.

Okay, I know Umbran came in here and asked us to keep this on track but I definitely have to address this point.

ROBOTECH isn't new animation targeted towards an American audience. Carl Macek literally reduced and edited Superdiemenional Fortress Macross, Superdimensional Calvary Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada into what would become Robotech.

So if you consider an American dubbed and edited version of a foreign film or series as a whole new product then I can see where you're coming from. But Macek took something that already existed an altered it (in the case of Southern Cross and Mospeada, changed drastically) for an American audience.

Hikaru Ichijyo becomes Rick Hunter in the American version.
Roy Focker becomes Roy Fokker
Claudia LaSalle becomes Claudia Grant
Maximillian Genius becomes Max Sterling
Exidole becomes Exadore
Misa Hayse becomes Lisa Hayes

Aside from some of the changes from a Japanese name to something more American sounding how is this something completely new?

 

[Umbran]

Okay, I know Umbran came in here and asked us to keep this on track but I definitely have to address this point.

...annnnd off to Media it goes!

By the way, while in this case it isn't a big deal, starting a post with the equivalent of, "A mod said not to do this, but...," is not generally going to be the wisest choice of actions available to you.

 

[GreyLord]

Okay, I know Umbran came in here and asked us to keep this on track but I definitely have to address this point.

ROBOTECH isn't new animation targeted towards an American audience. Carl Macek literally reduced and edited Superdiemenional Fortress Macross, Superdimensional Calvary Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada into what would become Robotech.

So if you consider an American dubbed and edited version of a foreign film or series as a whole new product then I can see where you're coming from. But Macek took something that already existed an altered it (in the case of Southern Cross and Mospeada, changed drastically) for an American audience.

Hikaru Ichijyo becomes Rick Hunter in the American version.
Roy Focker becomes Roy Fokker
Claudia LaSalle becomes Claudia Grant
Maximillian Genius becomes Max Sterling
Exidole becomes Exadore
Misa Hayse becomes Lisa Hayes

Aside from some of the changes from a Japanese name to something more American sounding how is this something completely new?

Lets see if I can satisfy both requirements at the same time. Robotech is a totally different thing than Macross. They share similarities, but overall they are as different in my mind as the Sword of Shannara and the Lord of the Rings.

Just as LotR is superior overall in mosts opinion, I have the opinion that Macross is superior to Robotech in story and overall connectivity. The creators of Robotech took enough liberties with Macross to change it in intent and plot so they could integrate two other completely different series into it (what is protoculture for example) to make it so that to my mind they are separate things.

Robotech is totally and fully American. Macross is Japanese, but can appeal to all audiences.

If you notice the Robotech RPG is called and designed after Robotech (from what I've seen) and doesn't really follow the Macross designs beyond the original Macross. In fact Macross and Robotech literally follow different histories completely after the original common denominator that they shared in animation, that of Super-Dimensional Fortress Macross.

Even that commonality had Robotech cutting and pasting different parts of the story to create ideas that were not in the original.

Ironically, even in Japan, you have those that also follow Robotech now days in addition to Macross. Even more interesting...they have fans of Thundercats, especially amongst those who are fans of certain anime artists and directors.

Robotech has become it's own beast.

In that light, Robotech the RPG, though an American creation, perhaps because of similarities with Macross (due to the common background) may be an excellent choice of trying to play a Macross type RPG.

As for Thundercats, I see it in a similar light to Record of Lodoss War. I think Lodoss would actually fit perfectly into an AD&D campaign (though I think it is officially supported by Sword World/Japanese RPG's...which also probably would work pretty good for Thundercats if you count them all as mutants...perhaps as Mutant cats). Thundercats had your classic classes in some ways...with characters being either one class or another (two choices given below)

Lion-O = Fighter/Paladin
Cheetara = Ranger/Acrobat
Panthro = Monk/Barbarian
Wilykit/WilyKat = Rogues/Thieves
Tigra= Illusionist/Psionic
Ben-Gali = Warrior
Pumrya=Cleric
Lynx-O = Monk/Druid