Is Thundercats anime?

[ShinHakkaider]

So Astro Boy and Cowboy Bebop both get to be anime, but Thundercats doesn't? Anime is Japanese for "animation." Thundercats was animated in Japan. While it may not have a lot in common stylistically with the stereotypical Japanese approach to animation, I don't see the relevance... "anime" spans a vast range of styles and tropes anyway.

So when someone says, "Thundercats isn't anime, it has the wrong look," my first thought is, "This person is not familiar with a range of Japanese animation."

I'm familiar with the wide range of japanese animation and have been into anime for about 30+ years. There were several american shows produced during the 80's which used TMS and Sunrise (Nippon Sunrise at that time) for their animation. You dont really see it in the animation used IN the shows as much as you see it in the OPENINGS of those particular shows. Most notably SILVERHAWKS, THUNDERCATS, BIONIC SIX and MIGHTY ORBOTS. The average animation during those shows were actually pretty crappy. Now I know that this is neither here or there but when I was a kid and saw these openings I thought that they were amazing. But I'm one of those people that dont consider anything produced for an American audience to be Anime even if it HAS Japanese animators working on it.

Both the GI JOE animated movie and TRANSFORMERS THE MOVIE were obviously japanese animated and were fun films. The story telling sensibilities of both came the closest to American anime as anything is going to get (with the obvious exception of AVATAR THE LAST AIRBENDER) but still is not, to me anyway anime.

Your example of ROBOTECH is a bit of a cheat. As Carl Maecek got the rights to three different shows (SUPERDIMENSIONAL FORTRESS MACROSS, SUPERDIMENSIONAL CALVARY SOUTHERN CROSS and GENESIS CLIMBER MOSPEADA) edited and reworked the dialogue and story to make one big and completely different story. Sandy Frank did the same thing with KAGAKU NINJA TAI GATCHAMAN when he turned it into G-FORCE. Are those ANIME? obviously yes, but they're butchered forms of it. It's the same as if someone took all six of the Star Wars movies, re-edited them and re dubbed them so that Darth Vader was the good guy and completely mis understood and those STOOPID rebels were in the way of him being reunited with his long lost shiny Droid and his short rotund friend (oh and his kid). Is it still Star Wars? Sure. But is it still STAR WARS? I wouldn't call it that.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Thundercats, Mighty Orbots, SilverHawks, Bionic Six = Not Anime.

Astro Boy, Mach Go Go Go, Kimba The White Lion = Anime

GI Joe, Transformers = Not Anime (Ironically enough there are Japanese Transformers series. Those ARE anime.)

Saint Seiya, Juusneki L-Gaim, Kido Senshi Zeta Gundam = Anime

Boondocks, Family Guy, Futurama and the Simpsons = Not Anime (Even though Boondocks is animated by Studio Madhouse who made Jubei Ninpucho aka The Wind Ninja Chronicles aka Ninja Scroll, Youju Toshi aka Supernatural Beast City and Kamui No Ken aka Dagger of Kamui)

Naruto, Naruto Shippuuden, Bleach, Yu Yu Hakusho = Anime

Amelie, Au revoir les enfants, Ichi the Killer, Black Book and Haute Tension are not Foreign Films? Because they're all films? They ARE all films but they are also films tied to their various nationalities of origin.

To say all cartoons are just cartoons no matter their place of origins is just either being overly simplistic for the sake of "winning" an argument.

If that's the case there are no differences between rules light RPG's and rule heavy RPG's theyre all just RPG's. But it's not that simple.

Neither is the definition of Anime. It's not as simple as something that was animated by Japanese animators, especially since these days alot of the animation is farmed out to Korean animation houses. Does that mean that Anime isn't ANIME?

 

[pawsplay]

I'm not convinced anime is a term that means "foreign Japanese animation film." It's a term adapted from Japanese, which refers to all animation everywhere, and and it can be applied as referring to a style that Japanese people relate to. But I don't see how Thundercats can be "anime" to someone living in Tokyo but not to someone living in California. Thundercats was animated in Japan and shows Japanese stylistic touches. The "Sword of Omens" sequence has obvious visual parallels to many Japanese cartoons, but little in common with Filmation's He-Man tranformation. While it has been asserted that anime is made by Japanese, for Japanese, I cannot reconcile that with the knowledge that the ancestral term in the Japanese language has no such connotations in the slightest.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Wow. Okay this whole thing can be solved very easily.

Anime = Japanese word for Cartoon.

Japanese Anime = Japanese Cartoon.

DONE.

Personally I'll never classify an american cartoon as Anime. But to each his own I guess.

 

[RainOfSteel]

The Pacific Animation Corporation appears to be Japanese.

They may have been hired to design and implement the animation, but they did not produce it, not was it ever considered a Japanese origin title.

There is also another term floating around now, Manwha:

Manhwa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Korea, this word pretty much means comic, like manga in Japan.

In the US it is also used to refer to Korean-origin material:

Priest (manhwa) - Anime News Network

 

[Leatherhead]

I thought "Anime" was a french word.

 

[ThirdWizard]

So... no American cartoon can ever be anime?

By the generally used definition? Not really.

Now, when you go to an anime convention, you see that lots of anime fans love American-made cartoons, too, of course. Samurai Jack is a beloved example. It isn't anime. It is highly influenced by anime. But, it isn't anime.

What about Robotech? It was made by Japanese people for Japanese people, but was later edited into a completely different show. Is it anime?

That's an interesting example. Lets say there are gray areas.

What about cartoons made for Japanese people made by second-generation Polynesian immigrants to Japan? What about by Japanese, for Japanese, but the studio is a Time Warner subdivision?

That's an interesting idea. What if Disney made a cartoon series in America, but it was specifically targeted at a Japanese audience and aired in Japan and not America. Further, what if it is voiced by Japanese voice actors with no American voice acting? Also, what if the animation style was considered mostly western?

I guess this is where we get back into a gray area again. I might venture to call such a thing anime.

Is there something ethnic about anime? Because if it's not simply animation made in Japan, and it's not a family of animation connected by style and cultural similarties, and it really is just "animation by Japanese for Japanese," that means that basically anime is defined by the people involved, not any quality of the work itself.

Exactly my thoughts.

If Studio Ghibli made a Bugs Bunny cartoon that looked like a Bugs Bunny cartoon, it'd be anime, IMO.

That's a little like saying Mexicans don't drive cars... they drive carros. And Mexicans don't eat taco sauce, they eat "salsa sauce" (like Japanese anime, get it?). And they don't drink water; when it's made by Mexicans for Mexicans, it's agua.

But, anime is a cartoon. Heresy, I know. They'll come for me soon... but I think I have time to post this before they get me. In Japan, they'll call Justice League anime, because that's their word for cartoon. So, if you want to get really really technical, Justice League is anime. So are Dexter's Laboratory, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and Steamboat Willy.

But, we've come to refer to it as more specifically Japanese cartoons. It's like how Superman is manga in Japan, but if you called it that in America, people would look at you funny. So it isn't like calling a car made in Mexico for Mexicans a carros, because nobody cares. The only reason we have the term anime in America is to differentiate American cartoons and Japanese cartoons, mostly because of the existance of fandom. If there was a carros fandom, we'd see the same thing with the cars.

I will say that it isn't important what the "real" definition of anime is (which probably will change based on who you talk to, as we prove in this very thread). The important thing is that when you or I talk about anime, to be on the same page as whomever we're talking to. That's a language thing. Communication is key.

 

[Danzauker]

But I don't see how Thundercats can be "anime" to someone living in Tokyo but not to someone living in California.

Actually, this is something that happens ALL the time.

For Americans, a sombrero is a very peculiar Mexican kind of hat.

For spanish-speaking people, it just means hat.

Sombrero - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

Same thing for anime, or manga for that matter. Is Spider-man a manga? Well, in some way yes. Manga is just the general term for "comic". A Japanese would talk with friends about Spider-man using the word "manga".

Unless he wants to stress that it's an AMERICAN manga, then he'd probably use the word "comic" (or "komikku", as it were).

I'm Italian, and thus being neither American nor Japanese, I guarantee you it's perfectly normal to use "cartoon" to (implicitly) refer to American cartoons and anime to refer to Japanese cartoons in jargon. When you don't want to specify, we just call them "cartoni animati". Of course you can also say "cartoni animati giapponesi" or "cartoni animati americani". It just makes you la little less in the know.

Back to topic, when I was a kid,and having always liked Japanese TV animation more than American, I distinctly recalled pointing out IMMEDIATELY that Thundercats and G.I. Joe were American, since the similarities between them and other American cartoons (MOTU, Ghoustbusters) were a lot more noticeable than the little Japanese influence.

Small hint: if it has the main characters giving you a speech at the end asking you what you've leanrned by the episode or remembering you not to do this at home, then it's a cartoon, not an anime.

 

[Deset Gled]

Given the time that Thundercats originally came out, it could not possibly be "anime". However, it is possible that it was "Japanimation".

 

[Walking Dad]

Does this look like an anime?

I say yes. Does the 'action' will feel like one (important for the RPG system choice)? I don't know.

For the old serial:
Thundercats was as anime as He-Man, regarding the story and action.