Is turning useless?

[DungeonmasterCal]

This is why I threw out the PHB turning rules and made up my own...which are quite similar to the variant rules in the Complete Divine.

 

[fba827]

Don't forget that a paladin or other cleric in the party (PC or NPC) could aid in the turning increasing it by another +2 per aider.

But, yeah, I my initial thought goes along with what liquidsabre said - that turning seems to be aimed for the undead fodder /minions (skeletons and zombies and such) and that the party has has to fight off with the higher-up undeads as a major type battle.

 

[Mr. Kaze]

Your use of caster level bamboozled me, sir!

My bad. The PC cleric we've got at the moment hasn't PrC'd for this very reason, so I've forgotten to seperate cleric vs. caster level. Numbers remain the same, though, and I still maintain the sound-bite position that 6 seconds of combat time for an NPC that took two hours to build is just plain rude.

::Kaze

 

[dcollins]

When turning was a once per day thing in days of old...

Um, when was that ever the case? Had to predate 1st Ed., by my reckoning.

 

[strongbow]

Turning is very useful...for divine feats.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Sounds about right to me. Early level turning is powerfull against undead opponents, at higher levels when clerics have greater feat access, turning not so good. Kinda of stymies the clerics being force to take feats that utilize turning attempts though. *shrugs*

 

[green slime]

Items:
Phylactery of Undead Turning (Turning Level = +4 Levels)
Sacred Armour (Turning Level = +2 Levels) (A&EG)
Circlet of Persuasion (+3 on Charisma checks)
Cloak of Charisma (bonus to Charisma)

Feats:
Improved Turning (+1 level)
Extra Turning (+4 attempts)
Empower Turning (turning Damage is multiplied with 1.5) (CD)
Quicken Turning (free action)
Exalted Turning (inflicts damage) (BoED)

And with the Knowledge (Religion) skill +2 to the check....

I have a PC IMC that has invested heavily into this paraphenalia; feats and equipment. It isn't a problem. With unhallow, and similar spells boosting Turn resistance, "simple" shadows become nightmares. At least for a while. All just tools in the DM's toolbox.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

My bad. The PC cleric we've got at the moment hasn't PrC'd for this very reason, so I've forgotten to seperate cleric vs. caster level. Numbers remain the same, though, and I still maintain the sound-bite position that 6 seconds of combat time for an NPC that took two hours to build is just plain rude.

Heh. And in the game I'm playing atm, the cleric has a level of bard, and I play the paladin. So there's a very clear distinction between "cleric level" and "caster level."

But your point is taken. With the proper equipment, turning can still be a force even against the new turn-resistant undead in the MMIII. And of course standard turning is still effective against MMI critters as well.

As far as the BBEG goes, I can see setting the stage so that turning the him isn't easy. But I like to leave the possibility out there. Every so often, as a player, it's just as memorable to defeat the BBEG easily as it is to do it after a long, drawn-out fight.

 

[Nail]

The problem, as we all know, is that it's "all or nothing". That's a symptom of a very poor mechanic.

Moreover, turning often makes the UD simply run away, then return a few minutes later. Another symptom of a bad mechanic.

Finally, it's really entirely up to the DM if the power works or not. (Adjust HD or add turn resistance, and "poof!" no more turning.) The final nail in the coffin.....a bad game mechanic all around.

 

[Coredump]

The problem, as we all know, is that it's "all or nothing". That's a symptom of a very poor mechanic.

Moreover, turning often makes the UD simply run away, then return a few minutes later. Another symptom of a bad mechanic.

I disagree. It is a choice. You can try and turn them or not. They may come right back, or they may stalk you, or they may keep running and never return. Same as casting fear or somesuch.

We use this to our advantage. Turn and about half run away, kill the other half. When the first half returns, kill them. Divide and conquer.

Finally, it's really entirely up to the DM if the power works or not. (Adjust HD or add turn resistance, and "poof!" no more turning.) The final nail in the coffin.....a bad game mechanic all around.

Wow, I really disagree. I want things to be in the DM's easy control. Good guidelines are important, but if I can't trust my DM to make a good story and a fun time, I should stick with NWN on the computer.

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