Is Vow of Poverty broken?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Actually, using a potion of curing wounds is a listed exception if a friend gives him the potion...

which is so...FRUSTRATINGLY...inconsistent with the VoP RAW & spirit. After all, are you really living up to your VoP if you're on your friend's luxury yacht and eating the food he gives you...from the 12 course meal? How is drinking a potion NOT using a magic item? And if that isn't using a magic item, how is giving it to someone else using it? ARRGH!

errr...back to the point...

Since they're a group possession, he could use them. The group is giving them to him to use.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Actually, using a potion of curing wounds is a listed exception if a friend gives him the potion...

which is so...FRUSTRATINGLY...inconsistent with the VoP RAW & spirit. After all, are you really living up to your VoP if you're on your friend's luxury yacht and eating the food he gives you...from the 12 course meal? How is drinking a potion NOT using a magic item? And if that isn't using a magic item, how is giving it to someone else using it? ARRGH!

errr...back to the point...

Since they're a group possession, he could use them. The group is giving them to him to use.

If a friend hands him one of the friend's potions, then he can use it, but anything the VoP character is carrying is not a group possession or else his vow has been broken. If he's carrying it, it is already a donation.

 

[Bront]

Actually, the real wording is: "You may carry and use..."

Once again, another indication that the VoP is poorly written.

RAW, an Ascetic cannot carry an incapacitated person to safety, or a deceased person to a proper burial.

I'll stick to my looser version of the VoP, thank you- call it HR if you will- that conforms to the spirtit, if not the letter, of the VoP by allowing things like divine foci and dead people to be carried without penalty.

This is something I discussed my GM, particularly in light of money and doing works with it. And the line we decided on:

The VoP Player may accept money or payment, but said money and payment must go to the proper works, be it given to the poor, a charity, a god, or whatever. It must not be used for personal gain or even for questional works (assuming the VoP is aware of the 'questions'). So, there is no reason a VoP character can't carry 20 gold, so he has coin to give to the poor he may find on the street. He just can't buy a meal with it himself (or at least explicetly for himself, feeding everyone, including himself with the money seems fairly reasonable, depending on the cercumstances.)

The idiocy of having other PCs carry his gold and items and use them on his behalf is ludicris. If they want potions for him, they can buy them themselves and give them to him to use if/when he needs them, but he would not ask them to buy them on his behalf, only to do what they felt is right. Someone else carrying your wealth still means you maintain wealth, which is not the purpose of the feat.

Basicly, with any moral character, or vow, it should be worked out with the GM, and should be a matter of roleplay. A character should feel pure in his intent when he takes an action, and a GM should take that to heart, since often morality is the spirit more than the leter of the law.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The idiocy of having other PCs carry his gold and items and use them on his behalf is ludicris. If they want potions for him, they can buy them themselves and give them to him to use if/when he needs them, but he would not ask them to buy them on his behalf, only to do what they felt is right. Someone else carrying your wealth still means you maintain wealth, which is not the purpose of the feat.

Amen!

 

[Conaill]

I would say that the most fair way to houserule it is that the VoP character is only allowed to carry objects of value in his sack if anything that enters in his sack is considered to not exist until it gets to charity (or its destination if it is something else). That means if he is going to donate the healing potions of his part of the share to charity and he puts it in his bag and everyone in the party is about to die without those potions, he still cannot use those potions without breaking the vow. Same goes for if they find a magic sword and give it to the VoP character to donate and then the fighter's sword is sundered the next fight--he cannot lend it to the fighter for the next battle.

Yeah, that's more or less what I'm converging to as well.

Essentially, assume that everything that goes into the sack is already donated.

"I'm sorry, but I cannot give you that healing potion I am carrying in my sack. That potion is property of the poor orphans of Mudsville, and I cannot just give it to you without their permission. You wouldn't steal a healing potion from some poor orphans, now would you?"

 

[Artoomis]

Yeah, that's more or less what I'm converging to as well.

Essentially, assume that everything that goes into the sack is already donated.

"I'm sorry, but I cannot give you that healing potion I am carrying in my sack. That potion is property of the poor orphans of Mudsville, and I cannot just give it to you without their permission. You wouldn't steal a healing potion from some poor orphans, now would you?"

Oh, I think it would be okay - so long as it was replaced with something of equal value! Same for the sword.

Of course, also so long as it was being carried arond only until such time as it could be donated. It's an abuse to carry around spares that are "bought" off the VoP character as needed.

 

[Dimwhit]

I think when I start playing my VoP character, I'm just going to treat all treasure like Kryptonite. That should simplify things...

 

[lukelightning]

Basically a Vow of Poverty dude is a slacker who wants to sleep on your couch, watch your TV, use your bathroom, etc. all the time saying he is beyond material needs. "Dude, I am truly free from material goods, which is why I can't carry around that potion stuff. But if you see me bleeding on the ground don't hesitate to use the one you have..." Good Grief.

Actually, using a potion of curing wounds is a listed exception if a friend gives him the potion...

which is so...FRUSTRATINGLY...inconsistent with the VoP RAW & spirit. After all, are you really living up to your VoP if you're on your friend's luxury yacht and eating the food he gives you...from the 12 course meal? How is drinking a potion NOT using a magic item? And if that isn't using a magic item, how is giving it to someone else using it? ARRGH!

errr...back to the point...

Since they're a group possession, he could use them. The group is giving them to him to use.

 

[Dimwhit]

Basically a Vow of Poverty dude is a slacker who wants to sleep on your couch, watch your TV, use your bathroom, etc. all the time saying he is beyond material needs. "Dude, I am truly free from material goods, which is why I can't carry around that potion stuff. But if you see me bleeding on the ground don't hesitate to use the one you have..." Good Grief.

Is there a difference between that or having the party Cleric heal the VoP guy with a Cure Light Wounds spell? Unless you're saying magical healing, or any other spells cast on the VoP guy, is off limits, I don't think it's too big an issue.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Oh, I think it would be okay - so long as it was replaced with something of equal value! Same for the sword.

Of course, also so long as it was being carried arond only until such time as it could be donated. It's an abuse to carry around spares that are "bought" off the VoP character as needed.

Or a slightly greater value. Then if the VoP character refuses, he is denying the profit to the orphans of mudville, which is the same as stealing from them, and so would lose his exalted status.