Is WOTC falling into a problem like the old TSR did

[AFGNCAAP]

I think one of the key things that any player/DM can benefit from a large amount of source material is being able to pick & choose what you want to use or allow in a game. Though I didn't think I'd wind up doing it, I've accepted using new base classes from many of the WotC supplements (psionic classes, archivists from HoH, warlocks from CA, etc.). However, just because the warmage class appears in CA along with the warlock doesn't mean I have to allow both in my game.

It's a nice option, IMHO, esp. if you don't have the time/desire to create whole new content for a game.

And, in a way, I think it potentially serves as a testing ground for the new edition. What are the odds that warlocks & action points may become part of the core ruleset for the next edition? Or some new rules from the various environmental handbooks may pop up in the new DMG on rules/effects for certain environmental conditions? Or possibily popular new magic items, monsters, spells, or the like becoming added to the new edition of the "default" material?

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, I think it's a problem with RPG systems in general.

Once you get the core rulebooks out, you pretty much can only make either splatbooks or adventures. Adventures really only sell to DMs, so companies make splatbooks. But eventually they run out of the basic types for the splatbooks. So they have to come up with more and more pony tricks, which tends to result in rules bloat.

RPGs that have a setting built into them (like say Shadowrun or CoC) and simply do books detailing aspects of the setting. But D&D doesn't really have that (and if they try to come out with a lot of settings, they get diminished returns). So some of the more recent stuff is pretty wacky. But I do think things are much better than in the 2e days when some of the stuff was really broken.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I'd really love to see numbers on these new products myself as the last thing I bought was PHBII.

The last WotC book I bought was Monster Manual II. Discounted at Half-Price books.

Edit: I forgot Red Hand of Doom -- I bought that, too.

 

[Vigilance]

The numerous books of rules might be a problem, but it's a very different problem than that encountered by TSR.

There's a huge difference between settings and generic rules books, even those with a lot of variant rules systems.

If you play Forgotten Realms, an Eberron book is of no use to you. On the other hand, you could incorporate the Complete Scoundrel into either setting.

Chuck

 

[yipwyg42]

Really, like what?

Spell, and Magic Item compendiums came out about the time 2.5 (The various power books) came out.

We now have the spell compendium out and magic item compendium out in a bit. I wonder if they are going to have a feat and prestige class one as well.
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Complete Mage, Scoundrel, and Champion are basically Arcane, Adventurer, Divine part 2.

Monster Manual is heading towards number 5, and by the looks of things, is more monsters with character levels.

I am expecting Complete Warrior 2 announced by years end.

I'm already looking at the following for my games

The 3 core books
DMG 2
PHB2
Spell Compendium
Magic Item Compendium
A few of the different core classes with the feats that go along with them.
Up to 50 more feats from various books as well.
Alternative class abilities
no prestige classes. (with the feats, and alternative class abiities, you don't need prestige classes)

 

[Crothian]

Spell, and Magic Item compendiums came out about the time 2.5 (The various power books) came out.

We now have the spell compendium out and magic item compendium out in a bit. I wonder if they are going to have a feat and prestige class one as well.

Complete Mage, Scoundrel, and Champion are basically Arcane, Adventurer, Divine part 2.

I can see the compendiums but why does more complete books or more Monster Manuals man this?

 

[yipwyg42]

oops I edited the last post, two different thoughts there.

 

[kenobi65]

The numerous books of rules might be a problem, but it's a very different problem than that encountered by TSR.

In addition to any issues TSR had with what they were publishing, they had two very large financial issues that had little or nothing to do with which kinds of D&D books they published, and that just compounded any other issues they had:

1) Random House (who handled distributing TSR to the book trade) decided to stop letting TSR ship them tons of books at the end of the fiscal year, in order to make the annual numbers

2) Emboldened by the initial sales success of Dragon Dice, TSR sunk a ton of money into creating the casting dies for expansion sets.

 

[Laman Stahros]

Don't forget that TSR also had to deal with Magic: The Gathering bursting onto the scene right around that time, too.

 

[teitan]

I don't think they are following in the footsteps of TSR. WOTC does extensive market research whereas TSR would throw a book together without seeing what the community wanted and then wonder why nobody bought the book. As far as the proliferation of PrC, feats etc. I also don't see what you are talking about. That is what the majority of product has been about since launch. IME they have actually cut back on the PrC craziness and the new format for presenting them has been much more flavourful.

As far as campaign settings... I don't see the logic in the arguement that settings are what killed TSR. I don't see how because they published such a wide variety appealing to a great many type of gamer and I think that is what kept them as the 800 lbs gorilla of the industry. The arguement about fracturing their customer base holds little water because the same arguement could be made for White Wolf and the WOD but it has been more of a model for success than failure. It would, theoretically, draw in more customers to have a more diverse palate of worlds and styles of play. I'm sorry, I just think Dancey was wrong on this one and the people who swallow that BS need to look at the rest of the industry to see the other side of the arguement. Its not like TSR was publishing 9 types of Tolkien. Birthright was a mistake but Dark Sun? Planescape? Ravenloft?