Is WOTC/Hasbro mismanaging D&D?

[Umbran]

Demand, need, want-- the exact terminology is not important.

Actually, the exact terminology is important. You see, if it's a "need" that implies that the game cannot operate properly without it, that WotC goofed up royally. If it's a want... well, there are lots of wants. The whole point of the OGL is that WotC shouldn't be fulfilling all of them.

 

[Wolfwood]

One, I wasn't calling you a name. I was describing your style of non confrontationalism/confrontionalism by tearing up everyone elses opinions and still trying to get more people to respond.

Secondly of course I am a fanboy to some extent. I am on a D&D message board. I have posted and lurked here since they were Eric's boards way back when.

Lastly everyone has an opinion, so when I tell mine, please don't tell me what you think of it.

 

[Sir Edgar]

Lastly everyone has an opinion, so when I tell mine, please don't tell me what you think of it.

So, are you saying you're not interested in what I have to say?

I thought when you leave messages on a messageboard you are participating in a discussion and implicitly agreeing to engage and entertain the opinion of others.

It sounds like what you are telling me is something along the lines of "I'll say what I have to say and you'll say what you have to say... end of discussion." That doesn't sound like a discussion, but sounding off to me.

 

[Liquide]

So, are you saying you're not interested in what I have to say?

I thought when you leave messages on a messageboard you are participating in a discussion and implicitly agreeing to engage and entertain the opinion of others.

It sounds like what you are telling me is something along the lines of "I'll say what I have to say and you'll say what you have to say... end of discussion." That doesn't sound like a discussion, but sounding off to me.

Well we are having a discussion here, at least we try to.

But as you were saying we are all entitled to have our opinions, not only you which means we will have diffrent thoughts on this subject.

{rant}
And not to be rude, from your post you seem to not want to know what we think you just want us to agree with you so you can say that your opinion is more "correct" then the rest of the bunch.

You opened this topic for discussion do not tell people not to post their opinions if you didn't want to know them in the first place.
{/rant}

 

[Daiymo]

I think some of this discussion is flavored no doubt by recent events in Hasbro land, with the recent layoffs and what not, which is a seperate issue. The discussion concerning the books revolves around taste I think. I have the MM2 -I like it, like the inclusion of some Chainmail beasties even.

Some books as of late have been of questionable value-the Stronghold book, Deities and Demigods, faiths and pantheons(to a lesser degree) and even some of the class books aren't really worth the price.

I am also a bit annoyed that many monsters are spread out across non monster books-some of my favorites are in the Manual of Planes and the Psionic Handbook.

However, much of my recent disappointment is cushioned by great stuff from S and S, Necromancer, and others..which is the beauty of d20 and the OGL.

If I had to grade the WoTC stuff only up to know Id probably give whole library a B+. Not perfect but very good.

 

[Sir Edgar]

I think some of this discussion is flavored no doubt by recent events in Hasbro land, with the recent layoffs and what not, which is a seperate issue.

Why do you say that? If you are referring to me, I have never worked for WOTC/Hasbro. Yes, it is a separate issue that I am not really concerned with. I am mostly concerned with the quality and organization of the new products.

I am also a bit annoyed that many monsters are spread out across non monster books-some of my favorites are in the Manual of Planes and the Psionic Handbook.

However, much of my recent disappointment is cushioned by great stuff from S and S, Necromancer, and others..which is the beauty of d20 and the OGL.

If I had to grade the WoTC stuff only up to know Id probably give whole library a B+. Not perfect but very good.

Yes, it's very annoying. It's largely part of a sales strategy and in poor taste I have to add. Considering there are about 25 years worth of material at the disposal of WOTC/Hasbro, including several previous editions as well as numerous printings, it is apparently deliberate and not a mistake.

I have to agree that Necromancer Games has maintained a standard of high quality so far. In fact, I wish they would make enough money to someday buy D&D because they would probably do a better job.

Personally, I would give recent WOTC stuff an overall grade of B- no more. The Player's Handbook is great (3e is a bit more scientific than artistic, but it all makes sense in the end), the Dungeon Master's Guide is quite helpful (though again I don't know why they took out a lot of stuff from the 1st edition like where is creating holy water, taxation, and antidotes for poison), and the Monster Manual is fair. Deities & Demigods is horrendous and Stronghold Builder's Guidebook is lacking. Monster Manual 2 leaves much to desire, but not horrible either. I haven't been able to really go through my recently purchased copies of the Manual of the Planes or Oriental Adventures yet, but they look good overall.

 

[Maerdwyn]

IMHO, D&D is not being mismanaged, at least to any meaningful extent.

1)The changes in D&D when 3E was introduced brought me back into the hobby. Not LOTR, or anything else. I was perfectly happy playing other RPGs. When #e arrived, I wanted to give it a chance, and I liked what I encountered. For me, at least, it completely revitalized the game.

2)The way the game has been managed since has not driven me from the game.

3)The previous point is significant, because I was driven from the by what I would indeed term "mismanagement" of D&D in the prior era of the game

 

[Sir Edgar]

IMHO, D&D is not being mismanaged, at least to any meaningful extent.

1)The changes in D&D when 3E was introduced brought me back into the hobby. Not LOTR, or anything else. I was perfectly happy playing other RPGs. When #e arrived, I wanted to give it a chance, and I liked what I encountered. For me, at least, it completely revitalized the game.

2)The way the game has been managed since has not driven me from the game.

3)The previous point is significant, because I was driven from the by what I would indeed term "mismanagement" of D&D in the prior era of the game

1) Third edition rules, while cumbersome (especially for DM's and creators), have provided a more logical and scientific approach to the game and I applaud the efforts of the people who put it together. It is really worth buying new books because of this.

2) No, me neither, but I would like WOTC/Hasbro to do a better job with the core rulebooks and supplemental products. If not, open up everything as open game content, not just specifically-designated stuff.

3) Yes, the 80's and 90's were terrible from what I hear. I never really played during this period so I'm not familiar, however. Now, THAT was mismanagement I have to agree.

 

[maddman75]

Well, I voted yes because I have concerns about Hasbro's business decisions about the game trouble me. Mainly

- The selling of all rights of electronic media to Infogrames. This is what nerfed E-tools into a char gen update and cause all kinds of problems for NWN players when they altered the CD protection without telling Bioware, leaving some 20,000 players unable to play their $60 game. The situation has since been rectified by Bioware.

- The letting go of their best talent, some of whom have been around since near the beginning. The only sense this makes is "this guy is making too much - we can hire fresh grads for half that". Not smart IMHO.

- The continual selling off of components, Dragon, intarweb sales, etc. does not bode well in my mind.

With that said, I disagree with a lot of Sir Edgar's complaints. He seems to have issues with the production, that is seperate from management problems.

The MM - yeah, there's some weird creatures that I'll never use. But if you think the Ethereal Filcher and Digester are odd, look at the 1e fiend folio. I especially liked the handling of templates and such.

The PHB is one of the best gaming books ever written. At one time I was a 2e luddite, swearing that they'd never get more of my money, and this nonsense of allowing gnomish paladin-necromencers would never fly. I ran across the SRD and was intriuged. Some good ideas. So I picked up a PHB, intending to steal some ideas for my 2e game. The next week I bought the DMG and MM and swore off 2e forever.

Oh, and for the curious, the Bodak is not a new monster. It appeared in the 2e Outer Planes MC (pre planescape) as a native of the lower planes.

I passed on Deities and Demigods - I have no real use for statted up gods. God are IMC not subject to hostility by mortals, and gods fighting amoungst themselves I'll decide the outcome by 'whatever is best for the story'. So stats on gods are simply not needed.

The Epic Level Handbook - at first I was looking forward to this book, but after reading some reviews on it it didn't seem like my cup of tea. I wanted something to make the PCs into Gandalf and Sauron, not superheores. If you like it, that's great - not bashing anyone's game. But not my cup of tea. I start getting bored when the PCs hit 15th level anyway.

The Stonghold Builder's Guidebook was my most recent WotC purchase, and I am very happy with it. All the crunch of the Castle Guide, but a lot less fluff. I don't really need information on taxes and mideival culture, as that is a matter for my own campaign. The component style of building is very fast and easy to use.

The splatbooks -- well, they got better as they went along. S&F had some good ideas, and some bad ones, as well some QA issues. They got better as they went along, with MotW being my favorite.

So WotC - no, they saved D&D and are still putting out good product, even if all of it isn't to my taste. Hasbro has me concerned, though if there's a quality hit we won't see it trickle to us for quite some time.

 

[Hopping Vampire]

You cant tell me the bodak doesnt look like the aliens from signs