powergamers?
Mistwell said:
I agree. Most of my position on this issue is that the spell, as used in common use by your average character who can have access to Wraithstrike but who also has to have a decent armor class, hit points, and base attack bonus to be able to handle melee combat, the spell isn't an issue. There are combinations here and there that make it more powerful, but you can say the same for probably 30% of the spells and abilities in this game.
If folks want to say a persistant spell of any kind is overpowered, or a touch attack from a character with improved invisibility and fly is powerful, or a combination with arcane strike and some other tactics, I agree. But that isn't a good reason to entirely dismiss this spell.
I just don't like an overreaction to a spell because it can be powergamed to be more powerful than expected. I honestly think in the normal use, in 95% of the games out there, this spell is no problem. DMs shouldn't ban the spell because they read a thread like this and think the spell is destined for a horror story. Unless a player (or NPC) is totally focused on not only being a Gish, but on being a Gish who can take full advantage of a spell like this, then I don't think DMs or players should be too worried about this spell. Give it a chance in your game, and I think most people will find it works out just fine. If you are playing with a bunch of powergamers who tend to tailor their entire character around a single concept, and you think wraithstrike is the concept, then I can see the reason for concern. But for your average caster, and even your average Gish, I think it's fine.
You simply are stating things here. Many people have said it is not working out "just fine" in fact it was used once or twice and immediately thereafter banned.
You also claim it needs to be optimized somehow. That's simply not true. You just need a PC with power attack and 3/4 BAB. More is better, but not required.
The horrible thing about Wraithstrike is that you simply don't need to optimize it to make it amazingly powerful.
Example:
Any melee-capable monster capable of casting 2nd level spells (dragon, etc.) + wraithstrike = Many dead PC's, almost guaranteed. Just add spell, that's it. Nothing more.
A PC with power attack and this spell with 3/4 BAB is instantly ferocious, often able to kill equal level CR's in one round or two. (thus defense is, well, not as critical)
A wizard with polymorph (pick any melee form) and this spell is brutal (see above example).
These are completely unoptimized builds. They simply stirred in Wraithstrike and got really gnarly.
A build that actually pays attention to this spell, even half-heartedly, and thus maximizes (for example) number of attacks, gets really gross. Build a two-weapon using gish with oversized weapons and power atack (lots of negatives "to hit" which don't matter pretty much), and cast Wraithstrike as often as possible. Really basic build, really nasty resuts.
I don't see how wraithstrike is NOT creating a huge jump in power even when PC's just use it casually. It's just a 2nd level spell. That's a pretty low resource for such an effect.
Even something as dumb as alter self (trog form) grants +6 nat. AC allowing a gish or wizzie to handle 1-2 rounds of combat. Trog has multiattack claw/claw/bite, then stir in weapon attacks, etc. All hit, etc. This is all really basic low level stuff. Once you hit level 8+, a half-optimized wraithstrike user will be intimidating. A competently optimized wraithstriker will be boring; way too powerful.
I was almost in tears with this silly comment.
