Is Wraithstrike the wrong level?

[wildstarsreach]

I thought that someone on this board had shown why wraithstrike could not be made persistant in a way that will actually give you any benefits?

As long as we are banning problematic spells polymorph and shapechange should go on the same list of banned as wraithstrike.

Shapechange is a 9th level spel and cannot partake of the benefits of persistant spell since it cannot be a 15th level spell. Wraithstrike can be per the rules since it would then be an 8th level spell.

 

[Nifft]

What about Persistent Spell is brief?

Hopefully the span of time that it's allowed in any given campaign.

Cheers, -- N

 

[mikebr99]

FYI...
Wraithstrike can be made persistant by a 6th level Cleric of Mystra (Spell Domain):

Male Human(Select an Ethnicity) Clr6; CR 6;
Medium Humanoid (Human);
HD 6d8+6; hp 39;
Init +0; Spd 30 ft/x4;
AC 10 touch 10, flat-footed 10;
Base Atk/Grapple +4/+5;
;
SA&SQ Aura(Ex), Spontaneous Casting, Restricted Spells, Turn Undead(Su);
AL NG; SV Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +8;
Str 12(+1), Dex 10(+0), Con 12(+1), Int 12(+1), Wis 17(+3), Cha 14(+2);
Skills: .
Feats: Extra Turning, Extend Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persistent), Persistent Spell.



Mike

 

[Deset Gled]

It more and more seems that most objections to this spell involved very high level characters tailor made to be able to use this second level spell. It seems to me that such a situation would not be common, and not be sufficient to warrant a major objection to the spell overall.

My objection to this spell is the opposite. Being such a low level spell, it is available to a warrior class that takes just a couple level dip into a casting class and is available very early on.

 

[Slaved]

Shapechange is a 9th level spel and cannot partake of the benefits of persistant spell

Not true but also not the point. It is broken casting it normally.

 

[Mort]

An extremely expensive scroll, and a very high UMD roll required.

It more and more seems that most objections to this spell involved very high level characters tailor made to be able to use this second level spell. It seems to me that such a situation would not be common, and not be sufficient to warrant a major objection to the spell overall.

All it requires is a standard everyday fighter/mage build past about 10th level (It gets really big at 15+ but that's not "extremely high" it's just high). Yes if you don't see fighter/mages the spell isn't that worth it, but that's common enough. You still haven't answered my previous question though, have you had any experience with this in a campaign?
I ask because before I had any experience with it, I thought the spell was perfectly fine, didn't see any problem. Now that I've used it in a campaign I can see how problematic it is now and how much more problematic it will be later.

There are plenty of "huge" combos out there, many that generate more damage than wraithstrike combined with arcane strike and power attack. Most of them however are either a) really complicated or b) so excessively cheesey as to be immediately thrown out. Wraithstrike is simple and it's not cheesey it's just overly effective for a 2nd level spell.

 

[Elemental]

Could you balance out the spell by saying that the weapon is basicallly immaterial, you don't get any Strength or Power Attack bonuses to damage?

That's what I did, and it's worked out pretty well so far. Oddly enough, I put that rule in place based on one of my characters adding +20 or so damage (at level 15) with Wraithstrike + Power Attack, and still hitting on a 2+.

 

[Elemental]

Shapechange is a 9th level spel and cannot partake of the benefits of persistant spell since it cannot be a 15th level spell. Wraithstrike can be per the rules since it would then be an 8th level spell.

The problem with Persistant Spell (and the reason I no longer allow it) is that I've seen it used maybe twice in a situation where the character actually paid for the higher spell level. IME, it's the feat of choice for an "add metamagic to a spell for no cost" class features or feats, of which Divine Metamagic is only the most obvious.

 

[Heckler]

Rather than banning or changing Wraithstrike , has anyone bothered trying to find other solutions? With a quick look I've come up with Wings of Cover (for single attacks) and Scintillating Scales as "counters" to Wraithstrike." These seem to be spells that dragons, at least, would learn, especially if there are gishes running around the countyside killing dragons with Wraithstrike."

And, these are both second level spells.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Not true but also not the point. It is broken casting it normally.

Short of a greater metamagic Rod, How? As Someone pointed out, Divine Metamagic. But how would a divine metamagic work on an arcane spell. Is the gods domains magic?