ISRP Basic How-To Seminar

[Nugan]

Etiquette is essential to ISRP and FFRP in general, you can’t freeform without rules. If we did, it would only be Anarchy, and anarchy eventually collapses, and then, where would we go for such fun? [edited]? Believe me, I have heard horrible things about that place, and not to flame the mods there, but a few of the moderators should have been at this seminar, if only for the etiquette portions.

Alright, I don't visit Wizards anymore, but I was directed to this thread by someone on my site ([edited]), and, seeing as its an attack, I figured I'd answer it:

First of all, [edited] does not have moderators, it may at some later date, but it does not have them now. We have two Admins: Myself and Yanen.

Secondly, please do not make comments based on secondhand information. If you want to go to my site, and then complaign about it, that's fine, just don't regurgitate other people's complaints without checking up on them yourself. In my entire time as Admin of [edited], I have recieved only one email of complaint from a member (That's out of dozens of members), and that turned out to be a mistake.

Third, during my time at Wizards, I was one of the biggest supporters of etiquite. I frequently made posts asking older member to be more compasionate and understanding towards new members. I asked for a loosening of many of the setting rules, which were causing causing new player to act out, not because they were "bad players", but because there was simply too great a barrier to new players wishing to join. In fact, a lot of what you said about etyiquite are things I said on posts on these boards months ago.

These are all ideas I kept in mind in creating [edited]. Now, [edited] is an "R" rated site (which is why I didn't link straight too it in this post), so there are things allowed which might be looked down upon by some WotC regulars, but this does not mean we are somehow less polite or less considerate of our members concerns than Wizards. In fact, as a small site not owned my a mega-corperation, and cared for by active administrators who are always open to its members opinions and looking for new ways to improve the site, we really are more considerate of our members.

Please don't level attacks on sites on incomplete information.

 

[preacher of nothing]

Hmmmm.....this is a very interesting thread i've been directed to....i hope i don't disturb the sanctity of it or anything by posting here....if so i would so kindly ask wizo_trelian that i've heard good things about to delete the post and place it where it should belong.

And now for a few nitpicks if you don't mind:

ISRP is great, lets just say that now. And yes it is freeform, but at the same time it isn?t. There are rules to abide by, and know those rules will help you out greatly. I hate saying this, but there are people that SHOULD have been at the seminar. It was a great experience, and even if you are as old as my on site, and the numbers hurt your head, or only a few months into the ISRP areas, you should have attended this. I look at the ISRP rooms these days and think, ?This place has degenerated,? and for good reason. Many of our new cousins to the site simply don?t know how to RP well. And it is OUR fault as the old timers for not helping them out anymore.

first of all...heh, i'm not THAT old to the site to make my head hurt...
Second of all....you're right....it has indeed degenerated. And from several reasons. What this thread IMO is trying to do is help with the young rp-ers, aka newbies. While this is all fine and dandy, its not always these people that disturb me on ISRP. I've gotten used in my time on the site to ignore the "lich with so many powers and immune to everything and with autohits flying around" even without using the iggy stick.....so that doesn't bother me as much as:

1. Oldies thinking they're better simply because they've been online for longer
2. Oldies actually having storylines that are suitable for B rated movies
3. Oldies ganging up (which i understand is natural but disgusts me anyway) with no real reason other than to sit back in a state of utter lethargy and watch the place, commenting upon everyone and everything
4. Oldies and Newbies using stereotypical ideas, characters and so on, lacking any imagination or originality of their own.
5. People (and i don't generalize here because these people belong to BOTH categories - oldies and newbies) that are insulted by an action that THEY don't perceive should have existed....in the manner of "Hey.....you couldn't possibly have done that....you're a paladin. You're just stupid"
6. People that find themselves in a tight spot and due to lack of imagination resort to the CoC as a final resort....

this being spoken, time to move on to the next nitpick

That is directly pulled from the ISRP room pages. And let?s go and detail that some. The first rule, goes for fights and for actual talking RP. Be sensible, TAKE HITS. People are going to throw crap at you, and do things to you. And before you decide to make it fail, chew on this. Even the gods get wounded, over-deities take hits. Thus it is impossible for a lesser being to be untouchable when the supreme beings of the multiverse can be harmed! Gods do bleed, gods do die. Immortality only means you do not die by old age, you can bleed to death and a sword through your lungs WILL kill you.

I'm sorry to say this.....but you obviously have't been on the chat site in a while now....Aren't you aware that all the characters are Gods???

*clicks sarcasm button off*

But seriously now...i don't know about "Average Joe" but when faced with imminent death, or mortal danger, i'll rp my character like i would act....run for my life through any means. I'm not saying this is a must, since many have "Oh so brave" characters that they will rp "properly"....but still...


next:

But let me get to the point, don?t assume you will win, don?t assume things will go the way you want. Referring back to Shen again, he laoths fighting, and yet, he has been drawn into countless ISRP battles, with the Redeemers, the Viyach Lemarg, and many others. And once again, proper battling is to take hits. Discuss things in PM as well, working through the fight in PMs can work out great for the fight. There are things you as a player can also do individually to make it better.

and that is linked directly to this:

Originally Posted by ?Do?
You tell SuchAndSuch ?((Hey, may Bob Normal appear behind SuchAndSuch and try to bring his dagger to her neck?))?
SuchAndSuch tells you, ?((Yes, but, Such is blind, she?d possibly hear him.))?
You tell SuchAndSuch, ?((Alright. What would she do if she heard him?))?
SuchAndSuch tells you, ?((Well, she?d whip around to bring her fist in at his nose.))?
You tell SuchAndSuch, ?((That sounds good, can we do it that way?))?
SuchAndSuch tells you, ?((Sure. After you. If this goes well and Such survives, maybe we could build something from it.))?
You tell SuchAndSuch, ?((Cool.))?

Alright.....here's my comment upon this....without any insult meant, my friend......you are the Karl Marx of rp-ing.....you have a great idea that should work in a perfect world.....but it won't here....
In my few years on wiz., i must say that NO ONE has ever approached me in that manner, just as NO ONE has been approached by myself in that manner. I'm sorry to say this, but to me, rp-ing (as selfish as it may sound) is not something i do simply for the enjoyment of others...it's not a play i put together with SuchAndSuch for the wonderful public....
the best roleplay i've recently had on wiz. involved a drow character of mine (one of the incredibly few that actually acts like a REAL drow....not the exiled wanna be spider hating wine drinking every second flirting unable to make any strategy oafs that populate the drow nation of wiz.) and a half moon elf half avariel. I spoke to her in rp, but didn't mention what i was about to do. She went along,then i went along, then she went along and so on....we both had great fun this way....as did the entire tavern that was previously in a comatose state of mind...


I would like to conclude with this:

Etiquette is essential to ISRP and FFRP in general, you can?t freeform without rules. If we did, it would only be Anarchy, and anarchy eventually collapses, and then, where would we go for such fun? [edited]? Believe me, I have heard horrible things about that place, and not to flame the mods there, but a few of the moderators should have been at this seminar, if only for the etiquette portions.

I hate to say this, but etiquette is the one thing you're lacking right now when you comment upon another site. Especially one i sincerely doubt you've visited or have been invited to.
I am indeed a member of that sire, and most important, of its "family". There are many things that bother me about rp-ing here that i can ignore while there. Wizards is Sunday Church and [edited] is the evening pub. No offense intended, as Wizards is responsible for me learning to rp....and i still rp here....though not quite as often, the main reason being that stated by yourself, that ISRP has degraded.
I would discuss these things that bother people about ISRP in a civilized and mature manner....but all i fear is that the nitpicks and questions that will be raised will be answered with little more than a cold shoulder or a ban.

This is indeed a good thread for newbies, but helps in no way with oldies....something to ponder on...

 

[preacher of nothing]

Sorry to add more to the madness.....but this is what another member of the "evil" [edited] has said....and i think that he proves his point here:

What the world is he living in? Plan out the battle before it happens in pm's to make sure that no one "objects"? Listen, if you don't want your character to die, that's fine. The way you choose to react to someone attacking them in some way is your choice, but the combat itself isn't. Part of freeform (much like part of playing pen and paper) is NOT having every little thing planned out nicely. If i want to make an attack on someone else's character, i don't have to ask them . I just do it. Now granted, i'm not going to tell them how they should respond, nor do i have to agree with what they do, but i'm sure not going to say "I beg your pardon, but can i stab your character in the back?"

Second, there isn't really any "correct" way to rp. There's always going to be n00bs, but since everyone's rp style is different, they really need individual help and experiences to improve their style. And when i say improve, i don't say it meaning that they're bad rpers. I don't really think anyone is a bad rper, but everyone can always improve their individual style some.

 

[Bhryn Astairre]

:: tosses handbags to Nugan, Shen and Preacher ::

...alright lads, ten paces and keep it blood free, if possible.

You get any on the carpets and you're paying for it.

Sheesh.

Although I will agree.

Shen > [edited] has -nothing- to do with Wizards, it's an alternative RP venue and mentioning in such a slur is very bad taste. I think such a thing should be deleted as part of said rant.

Just because -they- don't want to RP here, please don't shun them for doing what they believe is fun for them. That's bigotry.

You made some good points along with the bad, thanks.

Nugan> Calm down dear or I'll fetch you some sorta packet of frozen peas as a headache-doo-datness.

Preacher> ...I think you should swing the handbag for Nugan

I can understand why you're so upset and I can understand your quote, just some people kind of like a little warning beforehand. Just because it isn't right for you, doesn't mean it's not right for him. Shen was writing from -his- point of view.

Crikey, if you stifle points of view then you're not going to get any differences at all, and isn't that what makes roleplaying fun?!

Isn't it?!

...god, someone take my handbag off -me-.

 

[Nugan]

Yay, I've always wanted a handbag. Please tell me its pink.

Anyway, sorry if I came off as kinda jumpy. As most of you know, I'm usually pretty level headed and laid back, and I'm going to go back to being that way starting now.

I just wanted to bust a few myths about my site, which is my baby really, since its taken up a good part of the last six months of my life.

No permenant harm done though. Save in time lost that I should've been studying for my college classes tommorrow... Ooops...

 

[preacher of nothing]

Bhryn: no one was attacking anyone....i merely stated my opinions on how this thread dealt with the current problems in ISRP. I may not be a foggie, but i do have old characters as well, such as asher_kain and so on. And i indeed still rp here, so i should not be thrown in the bag of "people that don't rp here anymore".
That said, i'm trying to keep this a level headed, diplomatic discussion about what this thread wants to do. I read the "oldies" thread on this forum and it brought back some memories of when times were better. Things have not been discussed on this thread that i personally think should. As for attacks, i doubt i've attacked or harmed the feelings of anyone. Like i said...i try to keep things mature.
I won't post on the oldies thread, since i don't consider myself one, though i might actually be one indeed. I for one never was part of the "Playa's club" so to say.
What is needed are answers to questions that remain unasked.

As for [edited], that is beyond the point. As i stated, there is much more freedom there. A freedom you yourself Bhryn should remember from the good old days, and i'm not talking bout when you'd get stabbed every evening (which you did ), but about before that. That site offers you some portion of what ISRP doesn't. And even though it's nowhere near perfect, it's a closely knit family...one i'm proud to be a part of.

Maybe somehow, with the benevolence of the right people with the right ears and state of mind things can be returned to what they were on wiz....

 

[Bhryn Astairre]

A freedom you yourself Bhryn should remember from the good old days, and i'm not talking bout when you'd get stabbed every evening (which you did )

^ You know, she lost more shirts that way.

I think part of the problem back then was a little -too- much freedom!

Random guys -all the damned time- throwing knives and god knows what else (bottles, tables, knickers... )... In some cases, a little polite (( are you free? )) would have been sufficient. I think that's all I really ask for. ^_^' I think I've flamed, stabbed and scarred Bhryn in every way thinkable - because I don't mind her taking the smacks as long as she can manage to dole out a few in return!

As for returning to what it was: I'd love to see that, but a lot of Wiz IS very CoC centred now, not like it used to be. And you -do- get that division between those who play with dice, books and paper and those who can't be arsed with all the faff and go for freeform.

To be honest, whilst I do enjoy a dice game now and then, I much prefer to freeform, because I get a little more creativity in how its run. I think that's one point that needs to be covered here, "it's okay to be both."

:: hugs yeh :: I can see exactly where you're coming from, and if I had more time, then I would be doing something more constructive.

Damn you College of Evilness!

Nugan > Of course it's pink

...I kept the blue one for myself :embarrass

 

[Dontella]

*sticks her head in*

Wow, I'm quoted.. I feel all warm and fuzzy...

Er, beyond that, back on topic....

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a thread to help others. So, let's keep things helpful, friendly, warm and fuzzy, and related to Wizzies and it's patronage. Let us put argument aside, and work together, one with another, to help make this site a better place for all it's lovely people.

So, any input to the help thread, would be great, so long as it does not come in the form of open hostility, as it appears to have done so until now..

*sniffs*

Why can't we all just get along man..

A last thought, Wizards will never be what it was. Like all things, and people, it has evolved. This, has been discussed, and analyzed and considered for years now.. but all things must and do change.

Let us make the best of that which we have, and enjoy the company we find.

 

[preacher of nothing]

Well first of all, sorry if this won't make much sense, since it's quite early in the morning for me and asides from not even getting a chance to drink my tea and smoke my morning cigarette properly, i'm also in a bit of a hurry.

So, any input to the help thread, would be great, so long as it does not come in the form of open hostility, as it appears to have done so until now..

First off, again i appologize if i offended anyone. Though i may have felt compelled to do such, i'd like to think i kept to myself about that. As for inputs (and i'm not being pessimistic, just aware of reality), i've thought of a few on short notice:

1. This will require some work on the chat site. The moment you log in on wiz. chat, be directed to this thread (in a separate window so as not to disturb the one that just logged in). This way, newbies will read this stuff and hopefully learn something from it....even so, i don't think a thread will make yu knowledgeable in the art of rp-ing anymore than Playboy will make you knowledgeable when it comes to making love. The redirect thing will become optional, something you can switch off..../redirectoff or something...this way oldies or newbies who've learned their stuff don't get redirected here all the time...but they still get to see it at least once.

2. If the above is not optional, then those that have read this thread IE Bhryn and Dontella and Shen as well as myself, let as many people know about its existence. I rarely rp on ISRP anymore, but when i will i'll let people know about it.

3. Stop watching anime and come up with original ideas...IE, no more of this:

"patheticgirl says: I'm so weak and hopeless
evildude laughs maniacally and uncovers the entire plot to her "You are mine now....and like i killed your family i shall bla bla bla"
patheticgirl sobs, then touches her amulet "But father's amulet will save me...i shall summon the light and become almost Godly in Strength bla bla bla"
evildude widens his eyes
patheticgirl reaches to her amulet. Suddenly she is enveloped in light and an armor and weapon appear
evildude says: "Cuuurses.....i shall be defeaaaaated"
patheticgirl proceeds to use evildude as a broom for dusting the arena floor"

Get your own twisted and interesting ideas.... (Disclaimer: the above wasn't meant to say that all anime watchers lack any originality)

4. If you're an oldie sitting down at a table with another oldie watching the tavern, don't just ignore people and such....invite them over....and if your character WOULDN'T invite them over....ok, you're excused from that.

5. Think very very very long about how your character should act. Think of the whole thing like a story. And i don't mean Van Helsing-like-wanna-be-vampire-slayer-with-repeating-crossbow-of-doom....i mean imagine a story of your own with your own character at hand. Imagine his entire background, and then look at what you imagined....it doesn't make any sense and is hardly original? Then try again....it does make sense and is original? Good then.

6. This is what i do.....i don't know if this is actually a piece of advice....but i do things old school. Try the action first...be very clear that it's only an attempt, since Freedom of Choice is a force not to be reckoned with, and then PM saying ((Ha! So there! didn't see that one coming did ya? ))
If the person accepts, it's all good. If the person does NOT accept, then your character will most likely find someone else to try that with...

7. Forget about your writing skills....forget about how good you are at writing down a story. ISRP is not a railroad for your story's train people...You don't bash it in like that. You ADJUST....the story. I stands for Interactive....as in it changes due to circumstances.

8. Stealing other people's ideas and storylines or character concepts is a big NoNo...i've seen it happen before AND recently. I actually should give out names. (another refference to [edited]. Sorry, but i feel the need to: over there we have a forum in which we post different logs. That way we know which characters to avoid and which to rp with....). Like i said, i should actually give out names, something which would be appreciated i'm sure....but i won't since it was not one of my storylines or characters that were stolen.

9. Have measure in anything and everything. It was a ghastly sight a couple of weeks ago when i saw a character in the emporium hit on ALL the women there. What bothered me wasn't that the character was female, since you're free to be whatever you want to be.....hell, i like the bysexual demon from hell (aka Rajak ) and the way he roleplays....but i've never seen him offering everyone in the tavern a backrub and winks....ok...maybe winks....

10. Try to be as descriptive as possible....it may take longer, but it'll help a lot. don't just say that you ask for a glass of wine and then BG fetches it. Search your pouch, notice you have no money, then finally find the money (be sure to place the command later on, but state what your character does earlier), etc. IE:

"stereotypicaldrow looks to the golem, placing a few copper coins on the barcounter. He speaks in a dark manner, as if the air were afraid to let hsi words linger upon it "Wine, golem!"
stereotypicaldrow looks at x, glaring as he moves a hand to his chin, rubbing it a few moments as a little something flares in his eyes...an evil thought passed by and moved on
etc
etc
etc.
(a few minutes have passed since he asked the golem for the drink....during this time stereotypicaldrow started a convo or just kept posting actions)
stereotypicaldrow looks to the golem, narrowing his eyes and grinding his teeth for a moment or so "You know....you can be dismembered"
You say: "/tell bargolem !order wine"
Bargolem offers stereotypicaldrow wine.
stereotypicaldrow grins and reaches a hand out to take the wine glass "Thought so"
"

11. Don't presume anything, and as tempting as it may be, don't relate the character to the player. It won't have a happy ending. I had a nasty experience a few weeks ago i think, when i was having some personal problems and couldn't rp that much...actually....didn't rp at all during that time. But i would from time to time log a character in to see what users were online and get a general idea of how things are, then i'd log him out. And a certain character reffered to this action of mine as OOC nerfing, because i was avoiding his character (aka the development of his own storyline by abusing mine). Again...don't presume...more can be at hand than you think.

oh well....my few thoughts....and i have many more but am in a hurry...

 

[Bhryn Astairre]

4. If you're an oldie sitting down at a table with another oldie watching the tavern, don't just ignore people and such....invite them over....and if your character WOULDN'T invite them over....ok, you're excused from that.

^I don't mind people wandering over, but then again, there are some who rarely come into wiz and that when they do, a lot of their old roleplaying partners from previous storylines will want to go jumping in on them. I'm one who doesn't rp much anymore (I wish I had time to). When it comes to approaching a character you've not met IC before, perhaps try to assess whether they look involved or not before sauntering over to invite yourself for a cup of tea.

The only exception is Rajak, who enjoys disrupting any peace he finds. But, that's him for you!

Really great and valid points Preacher. Always willing to learn to better myself, from the experience and ideas other people can offer me, even when I'm not able to get to the actual site. Thanks