D&D (2024) It goes to show you can't please everbody!

[GMforPowergamers]

This is a pretty offensive thing to say to all the 3PP designers on this forum and elsewhere. Sure, choose what you want to buy, but tearing down 3PPs isn't a good look.

I don't know what is offensive. I have not said those 3pp are not good (I hear lots of good about some of them) I am saying that when people CONSTANTLY use "You should buy 3pp" as the hammer when people say "I would like to see this changed" (Especially now mid playtest of updated rules, and I still see it in playtest threads) when no other company that I know of gets the same.

I don't dislike Mongoose, or Enworld publishing, I just don't see why EVERY discussion of change to WotC D&D needs to be hit with "Just spend your money elsewhere".

I DO spend my money else where... on COMPLETLY different games. Long ago me and my group stopped spending on player facing 3pp (and that is just the way we do things) we still house rule, we still glance at free stuff... but if we spend time and money on a non D&D product it is 80-90% of the time not d20 at all.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I don't know what is offensive. I have not said those 3pp are not good (I hear lots of good about some of them) I am saying that when people CONSTANTLY use "You should buy 3pp" as the hammer when people say "I would like to see this changed" (Especially now mid playtest of updated rules, and I still see it in playtest threads) when no other company that I know of gets the same.

Well, that's because WoTC is not every other company, and D&D is not every other game.

It's sort of like saying, "Hey, I don't understand why Al's Auto Shop doesn't use an Irish subsidiary for offshoring its IP ... Apple does it!"

D&D, as a gaming ecosystem, is able to support 3PP. Other games ... for the most part ... do not have that luxury. In fact, if WoTC were to crowd out the 3PP, I am guessing that most people would view it as rather unfair.

Heck, a lot of great designers in the TTRPG space make a living (or get their start) designing 3PP for D&D. So what's unfair is for people to demand that WoTC cut off a viable pipeline for so many creatives because ... I don't know? What is the reason?

 

[Morrus]

I don't know what is offensive. I have not said those 3pp are not good (I hear lots of good about some of them) I am saying that when people CONSTANTLY use "You should buy 3pp" as the hammer when people say "I would like to see this changed" (Especially now mid playtest of updated rules, and I still see it in playtest threads) when no other company that I know of gets the same.

I don't dislike Mongoose, or Enworld publishing, I just don't see why EVERY discussion of change to WotC D&D needs to be hit with "Just spend your money elsewhere".

The situation is, in fact, the exact opposite of that. I think that the fact that you see this as a "hammer" and use terms like "needs to be hit with" is problematic in an environment where 3PPs are genuinely struggling to get recognition (or even acknowledgment) in the face of those who refuse to use non "official" material. As I said, you buy what you want, but please leave the 3PPs alone, and don't act like they're somehow oppressing you.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The situation is, in fact, the exact opposite of that. I think that the fact that you see this as a "hammer" and use terms like "needs to be hit with" is problematic in an environment where 3PPs are genuinely struggling to get recognition (or even acknowledgment) in the face of those who refuse to use non "official" material. As I said, you buy what you want, but please leave the 3PPs alone, and don't act like they're somehow oppressing you.

Edit: Redacted... can we get back to the point of the thread and not argue about 3pp?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Well, that's because WoTC is not every other company, and D&D is not every other game.

Edit: Redacted... can we get back to the point of the thread and not argue about 3pp?

 

[darjr]

Now's not the time to bring up WotC's track record of lying to fans during edition changes.

Noted you said this.

 

[MoonSong]

if there was EVER a picture to describe the D&D fanbase this is it. All of enworld can be summed up with it.

You say it as if it was a bad thing. I find fascinating and amazing how unique everybody in the community is. How I've been on diametrically opposite sides of the discussion with somebody just to go on and side with that same poster on another thread. The diversity and uniqueness of everybody makes it cooler and better to game with others.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

You say it as if it was a bad thing. I find fascinating and amazing how unique everybody in the community is. How I've been on diametrically opposite sides of the discussion with somebody just to go on and side with that same poster on another thread. The diversity and uniqueness of everybody makes it cooler and better to game with others.

I say it as a mixed blessing...

We all have different view points and that can lead to some GREAT shareing of ideas and concepts.
We all take offence at different things (as you can see up thread when I tried to share MY thoughts and by accident insulted the guy that owns the site)

The thesis is that we are a mixed bag, and in being a mixed bag we get into arguments all the time, how ever when they are good spirited friendly ones we bring more to the table then when they turn personal...

 

[overgeeked]

I agree with GM. I’m tired of being told that 3pp is the answer to fixing a busted system. I don’t want to buy six extra books to make my core 5E books work at a basic level. They should work on their own. Complete game in one set and all that. I want WotC to put out a good, functional, complete game. I get that there’s an industry popped up around WotC’s failings, and good for the 3pp for doing what they can to bandaid 5E, there’s no fault or blame directed at them, the problem is entirely WotC. But let’s stop pretending that there’s no problems with 5E.

 

[Micah Sweet]

To be fair Morrus, you can do my idea AND @Horwath's idea at the same time.

You can have more armors and simplified armors. That's basically 4e armor. Only 6 actual types of armor. But each type has 3-4 different versions (banded mail, chanimail, and braidmail are all the same AC).

It just wont happen before One D&D will be backward compatible and past armor values would have to be about the same.

Oh, I don't know. Level Up is backwards compatible and has lots of options. Maybe 6e can do something with materials?