It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[darjr]

All of this conveniently ignores the fact that they were the 800lb gorilla in the hobby without the OGL. It ignores the fact that before the OGL D&D was the gateway into the hobby and that even then most other games were ignored (with the exception of WoD for a limited time and look where that's at now) by most ttrpg players. In other words maybe the OGL helped them keep the position they had already garnered... maybe it didn't really affect the ecosystem all that much... but your logic doesn't necessarily follow.

Well yes, sorta. Vampire was a 600 lbs gorilla.

Also all the gorillas were starving and about to die.

 

[Alzrius]

Well yes, sorta. Vampire was a 600 lbs gorilla.

Also all the gorillas were starving and about to die.

<scribbles down notes for a BBEG who's a 600 lb. vampire gorilla>

 

[mamba]

So a hypothetical justification created by the person who implemented the OGL to tout its virtues... Yep no bias there.

or he can be right and there was more of a reason than just altruism in creating the OGL....

 

[mamba]

Where I see this logic breaking down is... doesn't this in turn apply to any other fantasy game built on the OGL system... say Pathfinder or 13th AGE or any other. So why does this benefit D&D and WotC specifically?

because the others are too small to attract an ecosystem around them the way WotC does, it is a self-perpetuating market dominance

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

As I read it the itention for the legalese was at that stage mainly a tool to build sufficient trust for various companies daring to work together on the business side. And for this it appear to have been quite successful. And if the legal document is good enough to fulfill it's intention, why throw more legal resources on it?

I will answer this with a very general answer, which I hope everyone remembers.

A contract is never drafted for when people agree.* Because ... obvious here .... people are in agreement. The reason you draft legal documents is for when things go sideways. When things blow up.

To borrow a phrase, the legal document is there to find out what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real.

In other words, the document worked because everyone was in agreement, and because there was no pressure on it. As soon as there was pressure on it ... now, people don't trust it ... which is why the CC option is being used.

This is a common feature of business negotiations- the businessman want to get the thing done because the see the upside of the transaction. The lawyers? They are paid to write the contracts knowing that things can (and do) fall apart.


*I am generalizing here. Yes, terms of the contract are used to provide clarity as to the parties' conduct.

 

[Imaro]

Oh? Who are the D&D characters? What are the D&D stories? What is the most populous D&D realm, or city? What is the history of that place?

Oh, and while you are at it, dont mention anything pre-5e.

None of those things define a brand...

@ValamirCleaver and @Scribe : You're laughing and yet the D&D Brand with this edition is stronger than it's ever been with, by your own admission, none of those things. If they are intrinsic and neccessary...How?

 

[mamba]

None of those things define a brand...

but they define an IP you want to branch out into movies and TV. If Marvel only had the name and no heroes and stories, there would not be an MCU.

 

[Alzrius]

Where I see this logic breaking down is... doesn't this in turn apply to any other fantasy game built on the OGL system... say Pathfinder or 13th AGE or any other.

Personally, I think it does benefit those other OGL-based fantasy games; they're near the top of the metaphorical food chain in that regard, so they also see some benefit. WotC and D&D just see more, because their loftier position gives them a broader reach. Playing Pathfinder 1E, for instance, kept you within D&D 3.5's orbit in terms of compatible products.

 

[Imaro]

because the others are too small to attract an ecosystem around them the way WotC does, it is a self-perpetuating market dominance

Ding ding ding... and it is WotC's brand recognition that allows this. Sure WotC benefits from 3pp in niche stuff but it has been proven the vast majority of those playing D&D use WotC materials only... so when you claim that WotC benefits just as much or more from the OGL as 3pp I think you are vastly overestimating exactly what and how much they gain... I think WotC has a better handle on this and is in fact why they were willing to terminate the OGL... I'd bet it's not benefitting them to the extent hardcore gamers on a D&D focused forum seem to think it is.

 

[Imaro]

Personally, I think it does benefit those other OGL-based fantasy games; they're near the top of the metaphorical food chain in that regard, so they also see some benefit. WotC and D&D just see more, because their loftier position gives them a broader reach. Playing Pathfinder 1E, for instance, kept you within D&D 3.5's orbit in terms of compatible products.

I didn't say it didn't benefit them... my whole argument has been it benefits them more than WotC. My question was moreso asking that why haven't 3pp or other publishers moved to one of these other games as their main support... why do they stick with D&D vs. Pathfinder, 13th AGE, etc. Because they benefit way more from D&D's brand recognition, reach, media awareness, etc than WotC doers from them.