Item creation from horseback?

[Pax]

Feel free to ask the Sage and see if this ruling has ever changed in the last 30 years.

Rules from prior editions of the game are, IMO, irrelevant. 1E citations are not a part of 3E (3.0 or 3.5). Nor are 2E citations.

3E is 3E ... stick to the third Edition rules when arguing Third Edition rules. Otherwise, I'll be forced to ask you about level limits in 3E (I don't believe they were ever EXPRESSELY declared "no longer in effect" in 3E - using your logic, that would mean they *would* still be in effect).

 

[Scion]

Has this effect changed at all in the last 25 years? Seriously, until someone asks the Sage and gets a different response the chances of a wizard officially riding in a disc are nil.

The line was taken out of the spell a very long time ago. Seems that it is now allowed.

You shouldnt have to go back to every other edition of the game to figure out what a spell might do now. Since there is nothing saying you cant in the spell description (outside of previous editions, which dont count) and it is incredibly nonabusive to allow it, then it can be done.

Also, crafting items on a big ship wouldnt be any different than crafting them on land anyway, so that should be easily allowed.

Being on any sort of a craft that is designed to travel without jostling anything riding on it should also be easily allowable as well.

So on horseback or whatever? probably not, but maybe there could be a feat that would allow it. Mainly for npc use I suppose, but it seems like the perfect thing for a feat to do, change the base rules in a not terribly abusive way.

 

[dcollins]

Rules from prior editions of the game are, IMO, irrelevant. 1E citations are not a part of 3E (3.0 or 3.5). Nor are 2E citations.

My point is that the ruling has been unchanged for 25 years. The language in the spell is fundamentally a copy-and-paste job. The implications are exactly the same.

Nobody should be patting themselves on the back for coming up with the clever "wizard rides on his disc" idea. Munchkins were trying it back in the 70's, and it was shot down by the designer then, just as it would be shot down by any designer today. Go ahead -- please, try it.

 

[calypso15]

My point is that the ruling has been unchanged for 25 years. The language in the spell is fundamentally a copy-and-paste job. The implications are exactly the same.

Nobody should be patting themselves on the back for coming up with the clever "wizard rides on his disc" idea. Munchkins were trying it back in the 70's, and it was shot down by the designer then, just as it would be shot down by any designer today. Go ahead -- please, try it.

Well, if I did try it, my DM would look up the spell description. He'd read it. It would say nothing about disallowing it. He would say "Okay, cool."

Calypso

 

[Rel]

I'd definately not allow any sort of item creation to be done from horseback. I probably would allow it while on a wagon or ship but might apply some penalties to its efficiency based on the terrain or weather (respectively).

Regarding the Tensers Floating Disk situation, using your familiar to tow you around, this has been discussed before at length. While I find the idea of a toad-drawn personal chariot to be intensely amusing, I recall that the argument against it was that the spell produces an Effect and has no Target. As such it did not qualify to be shared with your familiar.

I will say that I find the wording in the 3.5 PHB to be somewhat ambiguous on this point (I'm referring to the wording about shared spells with your familiar). I don't have my 3.0 PHB handy to look it over again.

Lastly, I regard the use of the Disk as a personal chariot to be not particularly unbalancing and might allow it anyway, rules minutae notwithstanding.

 

[Pax]

My point is that the ruling has been unchanged for 25 years.

And my ppoint is that such an assertation as that is fallacious and without merit in a discussionof the rules of a game.

The moment the old AD&D books started showing up with "Second Edition" on them, every rules in first edition was thrown out.

Themoment WOTC moved to release Third Edition (dropping the word "Advanced" in the process, incidentally), every rule in second edition joined the 1E rules on the garbage heap.

The rules for how a spell works in Third Edition must and do rely solely on sources which are labelled as being Third Edition sources.

The language in the spell is fundamentally a copy-and-paste job. The implications are exactly the same.

Implications are not explicit statements. The Third Edition rules donot state that the Wizard cannot ride his or her own Disc. Ergo, the wizard can do so. To insist aught else is to enter House Rules Country.

Nobody should be patting themselves on the back for coming up with the clever "wizard rides on his disc" idea. Munchkins were trying it back in the 70's, and it was shot down by the designer then, just as it would be shot down by any designer today. Go ahead -- please, try it.

Unless you're a designer, I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Since TFD now requires concentration to move, it's not as problematic to see a wizard riding one as it might have been in 1E or even 2E.

And the fact remains: noone shoudlhave to rely on old, out-of-print 1E rulebooks to adjudicate the operation of a 3E spell.

 

[dcollins]

Implications are not explicit statements. The Third Edition rules donot state that the Wizard cannot ride his or her own Disc. Ergo, the wizard can do so. To insist aught else is to enter House Rules Country.

The First Edition description read exactly the same. It also did not say that the Wizard cannot ride his own Disc. And yet he could not. That's how D&D rules work, you only get the powers explicitly granted. None of that has changed.

And that's precisely my point in bringing that up -- as a demonstration of exactly how the logic of D&D rules flow, on a topic which has been done over and over again with the exact same conclusion through the years.

 

[Pax]

The First Edition description read exactly the same. It also did not say that the Wizard cannot ride his own Disc. And yet he could not. That's how D&D rules work, you only get the powers explicitly granted. None of that has changed.

Then giveme the book name and page nubmer for a Third Edition reference. If you can't stick to the third edition, then your arguments about third edition rules bear no weight, whatsoever.

And that's precisely my point in bringing that up -- as a demonstration of exactly how the logic of D&D rules flow, on a topic which has been done over and over again with the exact same conclusion through the years.

Fine, then - I warned you, and yet you persist. So:

What is the maximum number of Wizard levels can a normal Elf have, if the character is built for and played in a Third Edition campaign? Remember to include rules citations with book, printing, and page number for each facet or point in your answer.

 

[rrealm]

Frankly I think even doing it in a wagon or a ship is being generous. Seems like it's the equivalent of building a computer system in the back of a van on a shaky road. But probably most DMs would allow it.

No way would I allow this. At best, roads back then would be some form of cobblestone which can jar one's brains out even when driving on them in a modern vehicle with air filled rubber tires and a suspension system. Could you imagine the vibrations if you rode in a wagon with hard wood wheels? Plus, cobblestone roads were probably only found in the cities and large towns, not connecting them and certainly not connecting the city to the Forest of Death to get to the Cave of No Return.

I think if I were a wizard making an item on a boat, I’d be a little distracted when my tools keep falling off my desk and roll around on the floor as the boat pitched back and forth.

 

[Sejs]

On a large boat wouldn't be difficult. They don't pitch and yaw in great heaves constantly (unless you're in a real bad storm), it's much more of a subtle rolling motion that screws with your equilibrium until you get used to it. After a few good hours/a day, you don't even really notice it unless you make an effort to. Or local conditions go nuts.

Your tools wouldn't roll all over the place, unless they were say... marbles. Magic marbles for use in enchanting. Or something like that. Even if the seas got pretty choppy all you'd have to do would be to put your tools in their case when they're not in use.



The cart thing on the other hand... unless you're on a pretty well-worn road, it would be kinda jumpy. Wait! I know! What if you put the cart on a series of Tenser's Discs, and then....