Item creation from horseback?

[dcollins]

Then giveme the book name and page nubmer for a Third Edition reference. If you can't stick to the third edition, then your arguments about third edition rules bear no weight, whatsoever.

Why does it matter? It's basically a copy-and-paste job between the editions. The description of the spell is fundamentally the same. Therefore, obviously, the implications of the spell are still the same.

 

[Thanee]

You create a slightly concave, circular plane of force that follows you about and carries loads for you. ... The disk floats approximately 3 feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you.

A strict reading of this text shows, that you cannot ride it.

It can carry loads for you, not yourself. Altho, that is kinda weak as an argument.

However, it floats along horizontally, which is impossible, if you are riding it. There are no exceptions given in the spell description. You can only direct its distance to you, per the following sentence.

Even if you were allowed to ride it, you would have to maintain constant concentration, because otherwise it would move to a 5 feet interval between itself and you and throw you to the ground.

Bye
Thanee

 

[joelmarcus]

crafting

have any of you been on a ship of a horse? I have the USS Guam and the USS Iwo Jima. both 1/3 the size of a Carrier. They are a bit unwieldy. if you were machiening somthing that required NO spellcasting of forging ie knitting somthing that sure. If it required anything else like casting and enchantment on it then I would have to make them stop at the appropriate size city and work on it as the PHB says.

 

[Pax]

A strict reading of this text shows, that you cannot ride it.

Really? That's funny, I don't see *any* specific statement of "the caster cannot be supported by the disc", in my PHB.

However, it floats along horizontally, which is impossible, if you are riding it.

How so? When I ride in a car, IT doesn't suddenly start moving vertically ...

Even if you were allowed to ride it, you would have to maintain constant concentration, because otherwise it would move to a 5 feet interval between itself and you and throw you to the ground.

Untrue. It will stay 5' away unless you direct it, yes - but if you direct it to Point X, and then stop concentrating - nothing says the disc will then *cease* to obey it's last directive and move over next to you again. It's the little "otherwise directed" - nothing says you couldn't "direct" it to stay exactly 50' ahead of you, or whatever.

Why does it matter? It's basically a copy-and-paste job between the editions. The description of the spell is fundamentally the same. Therefore, obviously, the implications of the spell are still the same.

Picture Johnny-the-newbie-GM. All of fourteen years old, running a game for his friends from school. Enter johnny's friend Sarah, who wants her Sorceress to ride her TFD. Johnny wasn't even *born* by the time 1E went the way of the dodo. Heck, he might not have been a twinkle in his father's *eye*, by then. So. How is Johnny *wrong*, if he looks at the third edition rules, sees *no* ban on such a trick, decides it's not contradicted by the rules?

Simple answer: the only rules that apply as rules in Third Edition, are those which are published for Third Edition. Now, if you'd brought up the 1E reference as a "well, whent he spell was first around, that wasn't allowed, so I think it's not a good idea to allow it" - that's fine for you.

But that's not what you did; you brought it up as if it were a Rule-with-a-capital-R, that *had* to be followed, and to deviate was a house rule. Fact is, it's a rule for another game entirely, and using it is a house rule.

And I have a big pet peeve with the "it has not been done in this way before now, so it cannot ever be done so" stuck-in-the-past 1E/2E fanatics out there. The 1E "Old Guard" generally being the worst of the bunch when it comes to that - folks who're so used to "how it has always been done before" that the mere thought of NOT adhering to the errata, FAQs, and accumulated dead weight rulings of the prior editions gives them hives.

We have new editions of D&D precisely so (ideally at least) we can discard those prior rulings, and make a fresh start.

1E rules don't belong as citations of Rule in a debate on 3E materials. As citations of past precedent, fine; but not as citations of Rule.

...

Joelmarcus: IMO it would depend on where the ship was. A river- or lake-bound vessel, I could see; a sea- or ocean-faring vessel, you're right, wave action would NOT make for a happy time trying to, say, scribe a scroll. The motion of the ship would be far too distracting, IMO, to maintain the proper state of mind for item crafting. And consider, too, that D&D ships are one TWENTIETH the size of a carrier - at BEST.

Now, in terms of fantasy settigns, I can also see crafting on an airship of some sort - it depends on how smooth the ride is, basically.

Wagon? Horse? Seafaring ship? Definitely not.

Anythign else? Situational-dependant. Very situational-dependant.

 

[Scion]

A small bit of enchantment on the vessel to keep it from bouncing around too much should be all it would take really. I have been on smaller boats, and even those you get used to the leaning very rapidly.. I was doing physics homework on the boat in no time And really, how much more complicated than physics could magic be? lol

 

[dcollins]

Picture Johnny-the-newbie-GM... How is Johnny *wrong*, if he looks at the third edition rules, sees *no* ban on such a trick, decides it's not contradicted by the rules?

Because the spell says is "carries loads for you", and nothing else. A basic principle is that D&D magic gives you what it specifies and no more. A simple principle with many examples in every edition that every DM should learn rather quickly.

I'm sure Johnny is wrong about all sorts of things when he tries to read the rules the first time (today's menu: item creation from horseback, double attacks with Great Cleave, etc.), hence the 100-page or so ever-growing FAQ and churning messageboards for the newbies. Some newbies apparently had the same problem with the exact same language in 1st Ed. It's an old story.

 

[Scion]

Obviously if the pc is walking around then he is carrying his own load his own weight.

Now he just tells the disk to carry that load for him, he is no longer carrying that load, guess it worked properly according to the wording.

 

[Thanee]

Obviously if the pc is walking around then he is carrying his own load his own weight.

Not by the rules, otherwise you would be overloaded pretty fast.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Really? That's funny, I don't see *any* specific statement of "the caster cannot be supported by the disc", in my PHB.

Specific? No, not very specific.

You create a slightly concave, circular plane of force that follows you about and carries loads for you. The disk is 3 feet in diameter and 1 inch deep at its center. It can hold 100 pounds of weight per caster level. (If used to transport a liquid, its capacity is 2 gallons.) The disk floats approximately 3 feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round.

I think all this makes pretty clear how the disk moves in relation to you.

You might be able to step on the disk, but it wouldn't move from the spot then, since it can only follow/accompany you, according to the spell's description... reading strictly, as I said in the beginning.

If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you.

This part isn't particularily clear either, that's right. I understand it that you need to concentrate and if you cease to concentrate on it, it moves to the default position, but it's not very clear, that's right.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

Not by the rules, otherwise you would be overloaded pretty fast.

nope, your own personal weight simply doesnt count as encumberance.. but if you are really tired then it will certainly feel like you weigh a lot.. at that point I'd love to have a little seat to sit on

Directing it is a pretty direct inference from the spell itself. I still see absolutely no reason to say a caster cant ride it.

Simply direct it next to you, then you sit on it, then direct it to move elsewhere. Easy. Nothing in the text contridicts that.