Items that add to Caster level?

[Gaiden]

Check the recent Rules articles on Wotc's site. They explain stacking much better than I could.

The site at to date (3rd post) is completely unhelpful in this matter. General rules on stacking are not at issue here. I presume everyone knows that mage armor and chain male do not stack and that dodge and mobility do. It is the fine detail of whether or not two unnamed bonuses stack with each other if they are from similar sources when those sources are non-spells. For example, the unnamed str bonus from death knell does not stack with the similar bonus from a second death knell. However, it is entirely unclear whether the same apples for items.

As far as I knew, in 3.0, defending bonuses (as I mentioned above) stack with eachother. This lead to the problem, if you'll recall threads from a few months ago, of armor spikes, gauntlets, shield spikes and a primary weapon all stacking defending bonuses to grant an additional +20 to armor. The consensus there seemed to be that in order to get the defending bonus to AC, the weapon had to be actively wielded that round.

So, by extrapolation, unnamed bonuses do stack with one another even if they are all form the same source in the case of defending weapons. By the rules, do the ioun stones stack with one another? This is a bit of a moot point, as given the cost of the stones, most likely I will just rule that they stack regardless. But for my own edification, I just want to know if the RAW apply the nonstacking of unnamed bonuses only to spells.

BTW - the fact that ioun stones don't take up a slot is a bit skewed IMO when compared with most non-item wondrous items. The fact that you have a rotating gem around your head that can be destroyed is a major drawback when compared to something like a pearl of power which you can just hold on your person. In the case of ioun stones you have the roleplaying restriction of having a floating gem circling your brow (for good or ill, it is still a restrictioin) and the fact that the item is easily destroyed. So that 30 K, to me, starts to look alot more like 30 K and not 15 K doubled for not taking up an item slot.

 

[James McMurray]

You can view ioun stones as detrimental if you want to. In my experience people generall worry more about the 12th level wizard then the tiny rock circling his head. Their pricing indicates that they are indeed just normal items with their price doubled for being non-slotted.

Defending weapons are one of the reasons why I do not allow non-spell unnamed bonuses from the same source to stack in my campaign. Whether its the way the actual rule is written or not doesn't really matter. Its balanced.

 

[Gaiden]

You can view ioun stones as detrimental if you want to. In my experience people generall worry more about the 12th level wizard then the tiny rock circling his head. Their pricing indicates that they are indeed just normal items with their price doubled for being non-slotted.

Defending weapons are one of the reasons why I do not allow non-spell unnamed bonuses from the same source to stack in my campaign. Whether its the way the actual rule is written or not doesn't really matter. Its balanced.

An ioun stone has 10 hit points and is unprotected (although attended). Any area effect spell threatens the integrity of that stone.

I have not found stacking defending weapons to be a problem IME. Of course I rule that the defending bonus can only be drawn from the enhancement that is permanent, not from GMW. After all, several +6 enhancements carry a rather hefty price tag. YMMV.

 

[Scion]

Unless I am missing something, ioun stones are still 'attended' as you said. Which means that they are only at risk if you roll a 1 on your save, and then roll on the chart and come up ioun stone, and then have it roll its save, make it past its hardness and destroy its hp. ::shrugs:: ioun stones should not be able to be hit by area of effect spells excep under normal circumstances.. just like if you are wearing a cloak it doesnt die horribly unless several very bad key things happen.

 

[Gaiden]

Unless I am missing something, ioun stones are still 'attended' as you said. Which means that they are only at risk if you roll a 1 on your save, and then roll on the chart and come up ioun stone, and then have it roll its save, make it past its hardness and destroy its hp. ::shrugs:: ioun stones should not be able to be hit by area of effect spells excep under normal circumstances.. just like if you are wearing a cloak it doesnt die horribly unless several very bad key things happen.

sigh - another rule I have not been following - I thought that when you get hit with an area spell everything has to make a save and that the only difference form an unattend object is that it actually gets to make a save (if mundane) and can use your save bonus.

 

[Gaiden]

Ok I just checked all sources as thoroughly as I could, and managed to only find two quotes that apply to this question:

PG 172 - "A bonus that isn't named (just a "+2 bonus" rather than a "+2 resistance bonus") stacks with any bonus

PG 172 - In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.

I presume the extrapolation of identical spells, such as death knell, stacking with eachother comes from the second quote despite the ambiguity by the first quote. This ruling makes sense too as, again - using death knell, stackable effects would be grossly overpowered.

However, the text does explicitly define spells. The RAW are at least clear in not preventing unnamed bonuses form items from stacking with each other, even if they are identical items. Moreover, I would not consider stackable unnamed bonuses from items unbalanced because of the cost.

Two +5 defending weapons cost 144,000 gp! Not until 14th level could a character afford such things, and then they are giving up that enhancement bonus to attack rolls to boost their AC.

For two bonus caster levels at 60K I am definitely considering the items balanced. Especially when a simple 2nd level spell can grant you the same bonus + other benefits.

 

[James McMurray]

If going by the RAW, they could instead get 2 +1 defending weapons and cast GMW on them. Or they could get 6 +1 defending weapons and cast Girallon's Blessing and GWM (chained if necessary).