Iterative Attacks for Monsters

[Hypersmurf]

The question I was addressing was about using multiple supernatural actions (as if they were attacks) and referring to them as "attack actions", which mucks up the difference.

A supernatural ability (unless stated specifically otherwise) is not an attack action but a standard action.

Okay.

But isn't Gaze Attack one of those stated-specifically-otherwise exceptions?

As I read it, a medusa could use Combat Expertise if she actively used her gaze while in melee combat, because the active use of the gaze is not just a generic standard action, or even the Use Supernatural Ability standard action, but rather the attack action... which meets the requirement of Combat Expertise where the Use Supernatural Ability action would not.

-Hyp.

 

[Atavar]

My error was thinking that an "attack action" was the same as saying "an action that can be done multiple times during a full attack because of high base attack bonus." In other words, I was making it similar to actions like disarm, grapple, and trip, which all fall under the "action type varies" heading and specifically are pointed out as being able to be done multiple times during a full attack.

Now that I understand that an "attack action" is simply a type of standard action I can now see why a gaze attack, which is specifically an attack action, can only be done once per round.

Still, if supernatural abilities are normally standard actions anyway, why call a gaze attack an "attack" type of standard action rather than a "use supernatural ability" type of standard action? I think it makes no difference in game terms and only serves to confuse things for some of us.

Thanks,

Atavar

 

[irdeggman]

Still, if supernatural abilities are normally standard actions anyway, why call a gaze attack an "attack" type of standard action rather than a "use supernatural ability" type of standard action? I think it makes no difference in game terms and only serves to confuse things for some of us.

Thanks,

Atavar

This I absolutely agree with.

It would have been much better to use more consistent terminology. This type of thing gives the impression the the core rules were written in a piecemeal manner - which we all of course know couldn't be possible

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Still, if supernatural abilities are normally standard actions anyway, why call a gaze attack an "attack" type of standard action rather than a "use supernatural ability" type of standard action?

Because you can use a gaze attack in conjunction with Spring Attack, which you can't do with most (SU) abilities.

 

[Voadam]

It is a bit silly that natural weapons do not get iteratives.

Monster CR is calculated though with this in there and adding iteratives makes big nonhumanoid monsters much tougher (dragons, giant spiders, dire animals, bestial outsiders) and would make some summon spells much more powerful.

This is already there though with many creatures

Give a pit fiend a single handed large melee weapon and it adds BAB +18/+13/+8/+3 iterative attacks (+30/+25/+20/+15 for a base pit fiend) to its bite, other claw, 2 wing buffets, and tail slap attacks. so from 6 attacks to 9.

 

[irdeggman]

Because you can use a gaze attack in conjunction with Spring Attack, which you can't do with most (SU) abilities.

I didn't realize that a gaze attack counted as a melee weapon. .. .

SPRING ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.

Benefit: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.

You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.

Special: A fighter may select Spring Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Sorry - I got a little Saga in there, which allows an attack action.

Mea culpa.

EDIT: In that case, switch "Spring Attack" to "Fight Defensively."

 

[Terraism]

EDIT: In that case, switch "Spring Attack" to "Fight Defensively."

Which, really, not a bad idea for a gazing basilisk.

 

[irdeggman]

Sorry - I got a little Saga in there, which allows an attack action.

Mea culpa.

EDIT: In that case, switch "Spring Attack" to "Fight Defensively."

But not as a full round action since that requires the full attack action which is useless (make that meaningless for using a supernatural ability that says using an attack action).


Note that under gaze attacks

A creature with a gaze attack can actively attempt to use its gaze as an attack action. The creature simply chooses a target within range, and that opponent must attempt a saving throw. If the target has chosen to defend against the gaze as discussed above, the opponent gets a chance to avoid the saving throw (either 50% chance for averting eyes or 100% chance for shutting eyes). It is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before its own action and once during the creature’s action.

It doess not state multiple times but twice - once for the everyone in the area must save and once for the attack of the creature.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

But not as a full round action

Right. I never said you could.