Its Official: I HATE Vitality/Wound. You?

[wingsandsword]

Yeah, especially when there's not really any major threat of death unless a crit happens. Then death is virtually guaranteed.

A typical character has 10 to 12 wound points, and is dead at -10, so that's 20 to 22 points of damage to kill a character (and if you're worried about dying, a higher CON score and Toughness can easily push that to 30). Blaster pistols do 3d6, heavy blasters and rifles do 3d8. The 3d6 doesn't even have a chance to kill a PC outright on 1 hit (even a fair chance of not knocking them out), and the 3d8 is unlikely to kill anybody in one hit. A basic lightsaber does 2d8+STR unless you've got a fair number of Jedi or Sith levels.

Now, if a highly skilled Jedi or Sith, or some strange monster came around, they could do huge amounts of damage on a critical hit, but Dark Jedi Knights and Sith Lords aren't meant to be routine encounters (even in TotJ/KotOR there are plenty of room for Dark Side Devotees, Sith Acolytes and other Dark Side villains who aren't walking death machines).

Routine goons have a chance to injure and wound PC's, but are very unlikely to kill them outright, major villains can kill PC's, but heroes die in Star Wars (Padme died, killed by a Sith Lord, Qui-Gon to Darth Maul, Mace Windu and other masters to Sidious, and Vader crushed windpipes of officers killing them quickly, Sith Lords are supposed to be deadly, when a Sith Lord is the nemesis, a PC death is a very real possibility and defnitely fits with Star Wars)

 

[Ranger REG]

Is the Star Wars version the same as found in Unearthed Arcana?

It depends.

If you compare UA version with Star Wars Original Core Rulebook version, then it is exactly the same.

If you compare UA version with Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook version (where they added the death's door rule of negative -1 to -10 WP), then it is not the same.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I thought about this same problem when I was thinking about putting together a short campaign set after Jedi Purge when the PC's would be Jedi who were running from Vader and the Empire. It was going to be a type of thing where they knew they would most likely all die in the end, but the fun would be the journey to that point and the fight against impossible odds just for the sake of not surrendering to destiny. But I was thinking, what if they had a few encounters with Vader before the climactic battle? Would a L4-5 Jedi get a crit on the mighty Vader and kill him off the bat? So I was thinking of allowing Force Points to be spent to change a crit into a standard hit. But we never got the game going so I don't know how it would have worked.

 

[Remathilis]

If you played WEG d6, you should know about one-hit-kill lethality.

A 2D Strength character (a typical non-combat-heavy PC) that got shot with a blaster rifle or blaster pistol (5D) could be seriously injured, and quite possibly killed by a direct hit, even a highly experienced character was one bad Dodge roll (or one really good Blaster roll) away from a direct hit, and it wasn't hard to seriously harm a character with that one hit, and certainly not infeasible to kill them. Character Points and Force Points could certainly boost that, but if they were depleted, then even long-running characters could die in one lucky hit. Not very common, but then again a critical hit that drops a character from 10+ wound to -10 isn't very common either generally.

I didn't see it often, but I did see advanced PC's die in d6 from a really unlucky shot from a generic mook, which is something that just can't happen in D&D's Hit Point system. Even in d6 a single blaster shot could kill a PC if they weren't careful or really unlucky, with HP that's just not possible once you get above the maximum damage that can be rolled on a crit, while in VP/WP it's still possible (but a little more likely than with d6).

Maybe we didn't play it long enough, but there were only three deaths in d6: A storyline death (PC sarificed himself), a strength dropping poison, and someone killed by the Emperor's Force Lightning.

Then again, we really didn't know what we were doing then (the DM handed out 5-10 CPs per GAME ) so that might have helped.

 

[Remathilis]

I thought about this same problem when I was thinking about putting together a short campaign set after Jedi Purge when the PC's would be Jedi who were running from Vader and the Empire. It was going to be a type of thing where they knew they would most likely all die in the end, but the fun would be the journey to that point and the fight against impossible odds just for the sake of not surrendering to destiny. But I was thinking, what if they had a few encounters with Vader before the climactic battle? Would a L4-5 Jedi get a crit on the mighty Vader and kill him off the bat? So I was thinking of allowing Force Points to be spent to change a crit into a standard hit. But we never got the game going so I don't know how it would have worked.

We had a PC engage Darth Vader during th Purge at the Temple. Rolled a CRIT! Did enough damage to kill him OUTRIGHT until the DM decided that Vader had Discipate Energy and absorbed the Lightsaber, healing him vitality instead.

See what I mean about lucky dice rolls mucking up a story? In D&D, the PC, even on a Crit, could not have killed Vader outright in one hit, and thus allowed him a chance to back off.

BTW: the Pc got full XP for "killing" Vader, even if he did survive for story purposes...

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

See what I mean about lucky dice rolls mucking up a story? In D&D, the PC, even on a Crit, could not have killed Vader outright in one hit, and thus allowed him a chance to back off.

But, again, this isn't D&D.

And really, throwing Vader against your players may sound cool and all, but its just like pulling out Elminster or another 'power NPC' from the Realms that are always complained about.

EDIT: Oh, and you should know that anything you throw at the PCs has the chance of being killed, no matter how powerful. PCs have a way of screwing up well set up plans.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

And really, throwing Vader against your players may sound cool and all, but its just like pulling out Elminster or another 'power NPC' from the Realms that are always complained about.

It's not a problem if that is the point of the short campaign. Vader is the BBEG, and he is far more powerful than you. The entire game would be a running fight against him and his forces, which are considerable. Sure there would be side stuff, but the whole thing would have been about what do you do when using your abilities for good is going to mark you for death in most of the galaxy? Do you avoid helping those who need it to save your life? Stuff like that. It may have been a fun side track from the standard D&D stuff. But since I've sold the SWD20 books I will never know...

 

[Remathilis]

But, again, this isn't D&D.

And really, throwing Vader against your players may sound cool and all, but its just like pulling out Elminster or another 'power NPC' from the Realms that are always complained about.

EDIT: Oh, and you should know that anything you throw at the PCs has the chance of being killed, no matter how powerful. PCs have a way of screwing up well set up plans.

True, True. I guess the DM didn't expect the PC to go "Hey, its Vader. Lets kill him. Whoops! thats a 20!"

Sometimes such seasoning flavors the stew, othertimes, it just leads to indegestion...

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

It's not a problem if that is the point of the short campaign. Vader is the BBEG, and he is far more powerful than you. The entire game would be a running fight against him and his forces, which are considerable.

And I do agree it sounds like a fun game. However, again, PCs have a way of throwing a wrench in games no matter WHAT the system is, so you can't blame it not working(or the possibility of it not working) just on VP/WP. That's more my point.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

True, True. I guess the DM didn't expect the PC to go "Hey, its Vader. Lets kill him. Whoops! thats a 20!"

Sometimes such seasoning flavors the stew, othertimes, it just leads to indegestion...

I didn't say that it HAS to be expected. I know I wouldn't. However, I'm not saying that the PCs PURPOSEFULLY throw a wrench in your plans...but if they get into combat with ANYONE, you have to assume there's a possibility they'll win.

These kind of threads pop up all the time. "They killed my BBEG too early!" style things. It CAN happen, and, its best to assume it WILL. If you don't want someone dead, don't put them into combat with the PCs. That's the only way to make sure it doesn't happen in ANY game without ignoring rules.