I've reversed my stance on dragonborn and tieflings

[The Little Raven]

Unfortunately, that crowd has totally ruined the environment for the three girls and two guys that want to play the angst-ridden anti-hero for other reasons, but that's the breaks.

Why can't people conceive of an anti-hero that isn't full of angst? We have plenty of literary and cinematic examples of such heroes, like Conan (gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirths, but no angsty brooding for this Cimmerian) and the Man With No Name (deep, complex, thoughtful, but nowhere near angst).

 

[Dragonstriker]

See, to me, those tieflings look cool. Diabolical? Certainly, but still cool. And a slight reimagining of appearance is par for the course with D&D races as far as I'm concerned.

William O'Connor writes in his 4e concept art gallery "I felt that past depictions of Tiefling looked like halloween costumes, with Ren-Fair horns and forked tails. I wanted to make a tail that was functional, which necessitated that it have the anatomy of a fifth limb. I imagined that this would give Tieflings an additional attack each round and amazing powers of leaping and balance, as well as making them immune to attacks from behind, but I don't think that made it into the mechanics."
http://www.wocstudios.com/4e3.htm
There is a good reason for the look; whether you like it is up to you I guess.

 

[Spatula]

It's the "hated and feared because of who they are / what they look like" thing that adds in the angst (or is seen as appealing to those looking to act in such a way). Conan and Blondie are simply badass mercenaries.

 

[rounser]

Why can't people conceive of an anti-hero that isn't full of angst?

Not originally conceived, but two favourites that leap to mind:

The guildmaster of the Slayer's Guild in Nehwon, who's a lawful evil assassin and a traitor, but is so charismatic and savvy that he paints himself publicly as a hero of the people with the occasional beneficial act, working the grapevine etc. And they buy it.

Another is from Dungeon magazine - a paladin with a phobia of spiders who loses his paladin status when he's unable to save an innocent from them. Is being a loser and a coward sufficient to qualify someone as an "anti-hero"? Arguably.

Incidentally, neither of these PCs would work as well with the race "tiefling". It's just auxillary gimmickry that would be tacked on, and would kill some of the pathos in both cases. (Both benefit from the ambiguity of being race "human". It's one of those subtlety things which doesn't benefit from advertising either way with horns and a tail, which would lead to playing the "oh I'm so misunderstood" card too consistently because they'd always be playing against type...which leads us to the main thrust of the "tieflings are like so emo already" argument.)

 

[IanB]

I dunno, man, I get a definate "70's" vibe from the old D&D stuff I read from circa the 1e era. Conan and LotR and pulp genre fit snugly with the last fading remnants of the '60's love of the noble savage and delightful hallucinagens. It

To me it is the gogo boots, tight flare pants, and excessive use of orange and pink clothing in the color art that makes me think of the 70s when I look at old D&D stuff.

 

[rounser]

To me it is the gogo boots, tight flare pants, and excessive use of orange and pink clothing in the color art that makes me think of the 70s when I look at old D&D stuff.

Disco dragons on rollerskates for everybody! woot!

 

[The Ubbergeek]

And what if the 'angsty anti-heroes' are not as bad as the 'testosterone-injected warriors' or the 'wise mages', as old and used archetypes?

Why can't players play what they want, as long everyone have fun?

 

[JohnSnow]

William O'Connor writes in his 4e concept art gallery "I felt that past depictions of Tiefling looked like halloween costumes, with Ren-Fair horns and forked tails. I wanted to make a tail that was functional, which necessitated that it have the anatomy of a fifth limb. I imagined that this would give Tieflings an additional attack each round and amazing powers of leaping and balance, as well as making them immune to attacks from behind, but I don't think that made it into the mechanics."
http://www.wocstudios.com/4e3.htm
There is a good reason for the look; whether you like it is up to you I guess.

The only (mostly) bipedal creature with a significant tail is a monkey. By comparison to the tails designed by Mr. O'Connor, monkey tails are MUCH narrower. They can aid in climbing and balance, and they can even grasp objects.

Sorry, I don't buy his argument. It doesn't have to be the classic "forked devil tail," but a narrow tapered tail makes much more sense than his chunky lizard tail.

As for the horns...well, no argument there. I've seen a lot of those "Ren-Fair" horns (working at Ren Faires, natch...) and they look pretty silly. But I still think I like them better than the giant ram's horns in Races and Classes.

 

[rounser]

Why can't players play what they want, as long everyone have fun?

They can, but putting specific, arguably non-generic stuff in the core leaves a larger footprint than the material arguably should have.

 

[IanB]

The only (mostly) bipedal creature with a significant tail is a monkey. By comparison to the tails designed by Mr. O'Connor, monkey tails are MUCH narrower. They can aid in climbing and balance, and they can even grasp objects.

Sorry, I don't buy his argument. It doesn't have to be the classic "forked devil tail," but a narrow tapered tail makes much more sense than his chunky lizard tail.

As for the horns...well, no argument there. I've seen a lot of those "Ren-Fair" horns (working at Ren Faires, natch...) and they look pretty silly. But I still think I like them better than the giant ram's horns in Races and Classes.

The only bipedal non-extinct mammal with a significant tail, you mean. Birds come to mind - as well as a whole assortment of extinct dinosaurs, etc. And I dunno, I think an argument could be made that pangolins are at least as bipedal as monkeys, they kind of run around in t-rex mode - and they certainly have significant tails.