Jeremy Crawford: “We are releasing new editions of the books”

[Maxperson]

Why wouldn't it? We've seen basically zero actual rules changes. The basic math of the game isn't changing. None of the combat mechanics or skill mechanics are changing. Why wouldn't you be able to run a newer module with a 2014 core set?

Then why wouldn't they just say that the editions are compatible with one another instead of the new one being backwards compatible, and not backwards compatible with the older books, but rather just with the 2014 adventures?

I expect we will have to do work to make the new adventures work with the old rules. Perhaps not much(or maybe there will be a lot), but we will have to do it so there isn't forward compatibility.

 

[Justice and Rule]

I get the impression that it started like that. But as soon as they realised they were needing to put out new books, and needing to make some changes, anyway, they figured they might as well clean a bunch of other things up.

The PF Remasters certainly feel an awful lot like 2.5e to me. Just as the 2024 D&D books feel an awful lot like 5.5e. YMMV, of course.

I think I termed it as a "2.25", putting in some existing errata changes that were significant (largely to the Alchemist class), putting some changes in to some classes while doing away with some fiddly stuff, and adding a few mechanics to deal with some outgoing ideas. I'd say before that they were probably in a 2.05-2.1 state because they had already done a bit of that.

1D&D is a bit more substantial given that it's doing a lot more to mess with the underlying framework of a lot of classes, but at the same time a lot of the fundamental systems are going to remain unchanged. I think 5.5E is probably accurate given how they are looking to change the classes alone, especially given that I think certain content will not quite work with new stuff, despite more general compatibility. The example I would go to would be the variant class options from TCoE: will I be able to use those with the new classes? I'm not sure that you will, but maybe we'll see with the end product.

But we're really just haggling over how you want to term "This is a major revision but not an actual new edition".

 

[mamba]

Then why wouldn't they just say that the editions are compatible with one another instead of the new one being backwards compatible, and not backwards compatible with the older books, but rather just with the 2014 adventures?

I have no idea what you are referring to, to me that is exactly what they are saying, 2014 and 2024 are compatible.

I expect we will have to do work to make the new adventures work with the old rules. Perhaps not much(or maybe there will be a lot), but we will have to do it so there isn't forward compatibility.

what work are you expecting?

All monsters stay the same CR. Items will be included. Nothing to adjust that you do not also need to tweak for 2014 adventures.

 

[Maxperson]

Compatibility goes either way. If you can run 2014 adventures with 2024 classes, the reverse is also true.

That's not inherently true. It's certainly a possibility, but not a guarantee. They have only promised backwards compatibility.

At a minimum they said you can mix 2014 and 2024 chars, they did not limit that to 2014 adventures, and why would it be.

I don't recall seeing this. I do recall the packets saying to mix and match for the playtests, which is a necessary thing because the packets don't give enough classes/subclasses to fill out a party for most play groups without duplicating.

I only see WotC talking about the two being compatible, I never heard them say 2024 is backwards compatible with 2014, but 2014 is not forward compatible with 2024. Compatibility is symmetrical.

They didn't say that, because they only claimed BACKWARDS compatibility. Compatibility is not inherently symmetrical. You can make computer programs that can run old versions, but those old versions do not run the new ones. The same goes for rules in an RPG. New rules can encompass older rules for running adventures, but the older ones could need updating to run the newer modules.

 

[Maxperson]

All monsters stay the same CR. Items will be included. Nothing to adjust that you do not also need to tweak for 2014 adventures.

Do you really believe that? CR doesn't even work now. I don't think that making changes to the 2024 monsters will make it suddenly work. At best it will remain equally broken, but since they've proven with 3e, 3.5, 4e(from what I've heard) and 5e that they can't judge CR accurately, I don't think they will be able to make changes to monsters and keep them all(or even most) of them at the same power level.

 

[mamba]

That's not inherently true. It's certainly a possibility, but not a guarantee. They have only promised backwards compatibility.

I will need a quote for this, I don’t think they ever made the distinction between backward and forward compatible

I don't recall seeing this. I do recall the packets saying to mix and match for the playtests, which is a necessary thing because the packets don't give enough classes/subclasses to fill out a party for most play groups without duplicating.

will have to check, but I don’t think they said that in the context of the playtest only, but also for the full 2024 release

They didn't say that, because they only claimed BACKWARDS compatibility.

citation needed

Compatibility is not inherently symmetrical.

without a qualifier (backward / forward) it is

You can make computer programs that can run old versions, but those old versions do not run the new ones. The same goes for rules in an RPG. New rules can encompass older rules for running adventures, but the older ones could need updating to run the newer modules.

nah, the rules work for either.

When talking about computer programs you are really talking about file formats, and there it is clear why an old program would not understand the new format (without getting a patch) while the new program can understand the old file format.
Rule systems have no equivalent to a file format.

 

[mamba]

Do you really believe that? CR doesn't even work now.

believe what? That they stay the same CR? yes. That you still need to tweak encounters because CR is not completely fixed? yes, but that is true for 2014 adventures with 2014 chars as well, so nothing changes

I don't think they will be able to make changes to monsters and keep them all(or even most) of them at the same power level.

see MotM. If the power level changes, that is a fix to more accurately reflect the CR

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It is 5.5e. The One D&D gimmick they are using in an attempt to avoid the stigma of a half edition isn't something I'm going to entertain. I will be referring to it as 5.5e from here on out, regardless.

It’s not but sure.

It’s 5e.

 

[Maxperson]

I will need a quote for this, I don’t think they ever made the distinction between backward and forward compatible

One D&D

We're building the next generation of Dungeons & Dragons—and we need your help refining it! Download One D&D playtest materials, give them a read or try them out in your home game, and then provide feedback here.

www.dndbeyond.com

"One D&D will take what we love from fifth edition and create an experience that is not only backwards compatible with the adventures and supplements you enjoy today but that will evolve the game for years to come."

will have to check, but I don’t think they said that in the context of the playtest only, but also for the full 2024 release

This is all that has been said on it to my knowledge. From the packets. When playtesting you may use. It doesn't make a claim about after release. It also notes that some 2014 subclasses will not work with 2024 rules and will require the 2024 version to be played with the 2024 rules, further showing that forwards compatibility isn't a thing.

"When playtesting the new version of a Class, you can use a Subclass from an older source, such as the 2014 Player’s Handbook or Tasha’s
Cauldron of Everything. If the older Subclass offers features at levels that are different from the Subclass levels in the Class, follow the older Subclass’s level progression after the Class lets you gain the Subclass.
In some cases, you might find an older Subclass doesn’t fully work with the features in the playtest version of a Class. If we publish the new version of the Class, we’ll resolve that discrepancy."

citation needed

See above.

 

[mamba]

"One D&D will take what we love from fifth edition and create an experience that is not only backwards compatible with the adventures and supplements you enjoy today but that will evolve the game for years to come."

says nothing about adventures not being forward compatible

Will have to see what I find about mixing 2014 and 2024 chars