D&D General Joe Manganiello: Compares Early 5E to BG 3 . How Important is Lore?

[Micah Sweet]

The thing was, Legend cannon built of Legends cannon. Jedi Academy or Dark Empire doesn't make sense without Heir to the Empire. Multiple decades of lore and characters were wiped away in the creation of the sequel trilogy, and even more from the Old Republic has been destroyed in the new High Republic/Jedi Origin material. Heck, we're on the third version of how the Rebels got the Death Star plans?

It shouldn't matter that it's less official than the Episode movies, if you care about continuity not erasing what came before, Star Wars is the second worst example behind DC comics.

Official does matter, depending on what you are most invested in and value the most. You think official shouldn't matter, but that preference only matters to you. I do sympathize with you caring about Legends; I loved Shadows if the Empire, for example. But was never as high level continuity as the films were; they didn't even pretend it was. Since we don't share the same values, and you don't seem to even understand how someone can feel the way I feel, we are at an impasse.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Just like the original Dragonlance adventures, then?

That's what the setting books were for: filling in the details and areas the adventures didn't cover. The 3e line was particularly awesome in that regard.

 

[Shardstone]

People collaborate in established worlds by working together to add to what is established, not explicitly throwing it out and "collaborating" different ideas with the same proper nouns. You do that when what you actually care about is name recognition for sales purposes.

Not always; sometimes, collabing means revamping or reimagining what's already made. Why should anyone be beholden to one artist's vision on a project that spans generations? Your old Ravenloft still exists, written beautifully into 3E's lavishly interested books. Now we have a new form of Ravenloft to play with. Both Ravenlofts exist in written and digital form. Thus, your truism really doesn't hold a place here. Van Richten's was written by people, not by the suits as Hasbro, so pretending like the people who worked on Van Richten's didn't care about what they were doing is very insulting to the artist's themselves.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not always; sometimes, collabing means revamping or reimagining what's already made. Why should anyone be beholden to one artist's vision on a project that spans generations? Your old Ravenloft still exists, written beautifully into 3E's lavishly interested books. Now we have a new form of Ravenloft to play with. Both Ravenlofts exist in written and digital form. Thus, your truism really doesn't hold a place here. Van Richten's was written by people, not by the suits as Hasbro, so pretending like the people who worked on Van Richten's didn't care about what they were doing is very insulting to the artist's themselves.

The people who worked on 5e Planescape talked about how much they loved the setting and wanted to honor the work that had been previously put into it. I was skeptical at first, but I had a chance to look over the new stuff and their dedication and care really show through.

I didn't and don't see anything similar in WotC 5e's treatment of the Ravenloft setting. Do you? Show me where I'm wrong here.

 

[cbwjm]

Dragonlance could be one of the best examples of how the lore or metaplot can become a "straight jacket".

True that, people saw the original modules and the novels and thought that a dragonlance campaign had to follow them instead of using the setting like any other and throwing players into the world as knights of Solamnia and wizards of high sorcery and having their own adventures.

 

[mamba]

You're cherrypicking. I can do that, too.

I am not cherrypicking, I was explaining where the ‘sales are declining’ take comes from…

 

[Shardstone]

The people who worked on 5e Planescape talked about how much they loved the setting and wanted to honor the work that had been previously put into it. I was skeptical at first, but I had a chance to look over the new stuff and their dedication and care really show through.

I didn't and don't see anything similar in WotC 5e's treatment of the Ravenloft setting. Do you? Show me where I'm wrong here.

Yes, many of those Domains were lovingly reimagined, especially the one with the Werepanthers. Sounds like you're conflating taste with effort!

 

[Zardnaar]

I am not cherrypicking, I was explaining where the ‘sales are declining’ take comes from…

I watched the video responsible in its entirety. It was two hours long.

They used hard data and multiple points of it. Since 2021 or so pretty much every adventure was selling drastically lower amounts than two years earlier.

Same time frame first few weeks of sales.

They did not do this for core books or whatever.

So the original video looked at the new adventures roughly since 2021 or 22.


What caused that decline wasn't expressly stated it's probably a combination of factors.

Game plateued with Covid money probably (US 3k handed out?).

In real terms game may have peaked 2019. Dollar wise Covid suger money and 5E will wind down before be can see what new normal is.

And we won't know what new normal is for several years of 5.5.

Eventually they will plateau. I suspect they already have maybe not in dollar amounts and Beyond might milk the dollars even if they do decline in sales numbers.

Not that we get the hard numbers. They probably do this for several reasons controlling the narrative being a big one (see 4E reaction).

Perception is reality after all online. Until it's not.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Just like the original Dragonlance adventures, then?

I mean, sure. I'll eat my words when WotC releases the DL setting book like TSR finally did.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes, many of those Domains were lovingly reimagined, especially the one with the Werepanthers. Sounds like you're conflating taste with effort!

Did the designers express any appreciation for the work of their predecessors, and a desire to respect it? The Planescape people did.