D&D General Joe Manganiello: Compares Early 5E to BG 3 . How Important is Lore?

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Sorry, but I reject the assertion that you need to publicly post about your appreciation for a work order for appreciation to exist. That's kind of gross, man.
Then why did the Planescape people bother doing do? Like them,, the VRG designers were using IP created by others. And given the actions of corporate Hasbro/WotC, I have no reason to assume they care, so I like when they make a point of it and then back it up.
 

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Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
How did they butcher it? They reinvented it for a new audience that has different expectations of horror given its the 20s and not back in the 90s. That in of itself is enough reason to say why you're making radical changes, because times change. We've had 30 years of changes in the horror genre, and Ravenloft was not timeless enough you can just plug it in today.

The Core in of itself was a retcon by itself, the original Ravenloft stuff didn't have that. Vlad's "Oh its a tyranical government!" schitt doesn't work as horror in a day when it very easily just veers into politics and "Boy how many various people across the world can I describe that fit this exact stereotype", Victor's one made Adam the Darklord because apparently they never read Frankenstein when they were writing Ravenloft (and this ia day and age where the monster is viewed far more sympathetically) and that's before we get into the weird anti-athiest angle it had, Tristen didn't even do anything to become a Darklord and was a victim of 'oh the curse passes down how spoooky~' which flies in the face of Ravenloft's whole entire concept to begin with (where the Darklords have damned themselves to this hell by their actions, not just gotten unlucky), Tsien was a racist pulp villain that you could smell the orientalism coming off (You remember how much of a stink OA got for being put up on the DMs guild, do you honestly think they'd just drag this back?) and I'm 90% sure she was just an old comedy horror movie reference. I can keep going if you want, Ravenloft has problems for days and I haven't even gotten to the Dreamland's frankly insulting depiction of indiginous Australians, because 2E was incredibly weirdly racist at how it portrayed them twice

If Ravenloft wanted more respect, it should have been better written for play and not a "Ohhh its a brain in a jar! Take a horror check for hearing of such a terrifying concept~!"
All that reads to me as is you don't like the old stuff, and you believe other people wouldn't like it either. That's fine, but I therefore invite you to read my post again: if you don't like the old stuff, let it go and make a new setting. There's no non-greed reason not to do that.
 

Then why did the Planescape people bother doing do? Like them,, the VRG designers were using IP created by others. And given the actions of corporate Hasbro/WotC, I have no reason to assume they care, so I like when they make a point of it and then back it up.
Because those specific people wanted to. Man, you cannot argue that people must gush on social media in order to be appreciative.
 

If you don't like old Ravenloft, let it go and make a new setting.
I wasn't expecting you to be against homebrew.

Then why did the Planescape people bother doing do? Like them,, the VRG designers were using IP created by others. And given the actions of corporate Hasbro/WotC, I have no reason to assume they care, so I like when they make a point of it and then back it up.
Possibly because they wanted to. Possibly they knew it reflected well on them. Possibly because the execution of the Factions and Planescape in general (other than the Faction War) was a whole lot better than that of most of Ravenloft so they felt the execution mattered a lot more than the high concept.
 



Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Possibly because they wanted to. Possibly they knew it reflected well on them. Possibly because the execution of the Factions and Planescape in general (other than the Faction War) was a whole lot better than that of most of Ravenloft so they felt the execution mattered a lot more than the high concept.
That tells me the Ravenloft folks didn't care about the previous work (for whatever reason), which brings using the names anyway back to greed.
 

Mecheon

Sacabambaspis
All that reads to me as is you don't like the old stuff, and you believe other people wouldn't like it either. That's fine, but I therefore invite you to read my post again: if you don't like the old stuff, let it go and make a new setting. There's no non-greed reason not to do that.
People wanted Ravenloft back. Ravenloft, as previously presented, couldn't just be brought back due to multiple dated issues. Curse of Strahd alone got absolutely dragged over the Visanti thing. Its that simple. Either it gets changed, or it doesn't come back. Even Planescape was changed, its just Planescape's changes were the removal/deliberate obfuscation of the IRL deities it used which basically changes nothing as the IRL deities had very little to do with Planescape originally outside of "They live here I guess"

There's absolutely a non-greed reason and that's "Giving the fans what they're asking for". Its one of the best selling books in 5E for a reason. "Dark Sun but with the serial numbers filed off" from Spelljammer hasn't stopped people asking for a proper Dark Sun setting, even if that's probably not happening, and a Ravenloft with the serial numbers filed off isn't going to lower the demand, especially when people would instead just say "Just use Ravenloft instead for your horror villains trapped to suffer eternally"
 

How am I against homebrew? If you're trying to make some sort of "gotcha" point, please don't be cute about it. Just tell me.
You seem to be against making things your own and adapting them if you don't like them. Instead what you are advocating for is throwing things out entirely rather than taking the good parts and using them as a basis to make something you consider better.
 

Mecheon

Sacabambaspis
Also I just was reminded, there's a reference to Iron and Blood in VRGtR

Y'know. Iron and Blood: Warriors of Ravenloft, the awful fighting game for the PS1? You don't include a reference that absolutely niche without caring a lot for something

Hell, if anything you could easily argue simply due to including it, VRGtR is more respectful than any of the Ravenloft books that White Wolf published. None of them had Iron and Blood references (please don't actually make this argument, Iron and Blood is an awful game)
 

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