D&D 3E/3.5 Jonathan Tweet: Streamlining Third Edition

The D&D 3rd Ed project was part big-picture vision and part a collection of individual decisions about rules, terms, and characters. In terms of rules, a lot of what we did amounted to streamlining.

The D&D 3rd Ed project was part big-picture vision and part a collection of individual decisions about rules, terms, and characters. In terms of rules, a lot of what we did amounted to streamlining. We removed absolute limits in favor of consequences, removed unnecessary distinctions in favor of important ones, and eliminated extraneous rules. Many of these changes seemed drastic at the time because they eliminated rules that dated back to original D&D and its first rules supplement, Greyhawk. The D&D-playing audience, however, accepted them in stride.

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Some of the work to streamline the game had already been done in the Dungeons & Dragons line (“basic” D&D or “BECMI”), and some had been done with 2E. Basic D&D offered a unified table for ability modifiers and ditched separate damage values for human-size versus large ones. 2E ditched level limits by race, level names for classes, and the awkward term “magic-user.” Both versions of the game left out attack bonuses by weapon and Armor Class, as well as the possibility that a beginning character might randomly have a suite of game-breaking psionic powers. We maintained all these changes and took these efforts further.

One overriding goal was to remove limits wherever we could. I was fond of telling players that in the new edition you could eat rocks as your rations. The players would look at me in disbelief, and I would say, “You’ll break your teeth and starve to death, but there’s no rule against eating rocks.” Likewise, there was no rule against wizards wearing armor. It hurt spellcasting, but you could do it if you wanted to. Ryan Dancey would say the same thing more succinctly: “consequences, not restrictions.”

We got rid of class and multiclass restrictions by race. At Gen Con the year before 3E released, we showed a roomful of fans an illustration of a halforc paladin, and they cheered. We also removed ability minimums and maximums for races and minimums for classes. If you wanted to play a ranger with a low Constitution, OK, you just won’t be as tough as the typical ranger. If a wizard wants to swing a sword, OK, you’re just not as skilled with it as with a quarterstaff. Was it important to say that dwarves can’t have Dexterity scores of 18? No.

We removed differences between characters that mattered least so we could focus on distinctions that mattered most. Small characters got their foot speed increased so they could keep up better with humans-size characters. Darkvision was defined as not infrared so that it didn’t implicitly give some characters the hard-to-manage ability to see heat. Druids didn’t have to fight other druids to attain high level. Paladins could have any number of magic items. Multiclassing and dual classing became the same thing instead of two quite different systems. Earlier, D&D balanced wizards by making them weak at low level and powerful at high level, but we tried to balance the classes at both low level and high level. (We failed. Spellcasters were still too good at high level.) We put all classes on the same XP table for rising in level. The original system doubly punished wizards’ hit points by giving them a lower Hit Die per level and making them lower level at any given XP total. The system also sometimes gave clerics more hit points than fighters because a cleric would be higher level than a fighter with the same XP total.

For me it was particularly satisfying to eliminate extraneous rules. We ditched percentile Strength. A big surprise was how little complaining we heard about percentile Strength going away. The fighter with 18/100 Strength was something of a icon, but players accepted the change. Percentile Strength is a rule that you don’t see other RPGs copy, and that was a pretty good sign that it wasn’t doing much for the game.

You can say the same thing for weapons dealing more or less damage again large creatures than against human-sized targets, a rule that we dropped. Personally, I loved getting rid of weapon damage values that came with bonuses, using plain dice ranges instead. A damage range of 1d6+1 became 1d8, which is pretty much the same thing. That way, every bonus added to a damage roll was a bonus that came from something other than the base weapon type—a Strength bonus, a magical bonus, or something else special. Ranged weapons lost their rate of fire. I hated the way high-Strength characters in 2E liked throwing darts (rate of fire 3/1) so that they could get their Strength bonus on damage several times. Characters became proficient in all their classes’ weapons rather than a few, and weapon specialization went away. In 2E, specialization gave the character benefits to attack rate, attack rolls, and damage rolls—effects that multiplied together to more than double the character’s average damage.

We dropped the XP bonus that characters used to get for having high ability scores. In original D&D, the only thing that a high Strength did for your character was grant them an XP bonus if they were a fighter. Strength did not affect attacks or damage. In 3E, a high Strength score did plenty for a fighter, and the XP bonus was cut as extraneous.

We let players roll Hit Dice up to 20th level rather than making them stop at 9th or 10th. In original D&D, 9th or 10th level was a sort of maximum, with spellcasters not gaining an higher-level spells thereafter. Spells of 6th to 9th level were a later addition. The system we inherited, however, went up to 20th level, and we let Hit Dice scale up to match.

In 2E, sometimes players wanted high scores and low rolls, as with thief and ranger skills or nonweapon proficiencies. Sometimes players wanted low scores and high rolls, as with THAC0, saving throws, and Armor Class. We established a system where you wanted high scores and high rolls: attacks, saving throws, and skill checks. While we were at it, we streamlined and rationalized saving throws and offered a single initiative system rather than the several systems found in 2E.

D&D is popular in part because of its legacy, so we worried that fans would object to all these changes. Overall, however, the fans ate it up. Part of the reason that we got away with big changes is that we took pains to make the new edition really feel like D&D, but that’s a topic for another essay.
 

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Jonathan Tweet

Jonathan Tweet

D&D 3E, Over the Edge, Everway, Ars Magica, Omega World, Grandmother Fish

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Those are just off the top of my head, but they represent ways in which spellcasters gained power in 3E simply because of the things which had traditionally kept them in check were removed, presumably because they weren't considered to be fun.

My guess is they removed most of that, because people were hand-waving most of that in their homebrew.
 

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Alzrius

The EN World kitten
My guess is they removed most of that, because people were hand-waving most of that in their homebrew.

Oh, I have no doubt that people were house-ruling some - maybe even most - of those away. But take them all away, along with several other notable changes, and the consequences strike me as having clearly been beyond what the designers expected.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
My guess is they removed most of that, because people were hand-waving most of that in their homebrew.
Probably not consistently hand-waving /all/ of it, but sure, there was a tendency to adopt variants - mana systems, most notably, which is why I was surprised 3e went with the spontaneous design for the Sorcerer - that further overpowered casters, particularly the Magic-User. It was the 'advanced class' meant to appeal to more skillful players, who, in turn tended to become DMs, so when it came time to pen some variants for your own campaign, you'd already internalized some of the frustrations of playing an MU. (Of course, I'm totally projecting as I say that, since that's /exactly/ what I did.)
But, natural tendency that it may well have been, it wasn't necessarily a good thing - not a good idea to silo character concepts into beginner fighters and advanced magic-users, in the first place, and not a good idea to remove restrictions on the latter without corresponding reductions in it's power and/or flexibility (and/or corresponding improvements to the other classes).

To be fair to the developers of 3.0, however, time to avoid that mistake, wasn't 2000, by the time TSR folded and D&D was in the wind, needing saving, the fanbase - including the white knights wizards riding to it's rescue - had been internalizing those dynamics for over 20 years. The opportunity probably passed when Gygax was ousted, and 2e was produced as little more than a polished re-production of AD&D, with a shift in emphasis to settings. It's not impossible, that, back in 1989, the fanbase might have accepted an improved version of D&D.
(Then again, Ardiun.)
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Plus the full-attack iterative -5/swing penalties, plus that 5 ft. sticky feet syndrome (why on earth do I get to move only 5 ft. if I swing my golf club twice or more).

What a lot of people don't realize is that these were mainly the 3e manifestation of what was already in the rules. How about that half-attack rate advancement fighter types got? It's modeled by the -5 to iteratives that keep them from doubling in effectiveness when they get a new attack.
And that 5' step? In 2e, you could make an attack if you had to move to close with the opponent (defined as more than 10'). So being able to get multiple attacks and still run around the battlefield? Nope. You may have gotten 5' more, but that's really it.

3e mostly made those things a lot clearer more than actually change them.
 

Bardic Dave

Adventurer
What a lot of people don't realize is that these were mainly the 3e manifestation of what was already in the rules. How about that half-attack rate advancement fighter types got? It's modeled by the -5 to iteratives that keep them from doubling in effectiveness when they get a new attack.
And that 5' step? In 2e, you could make an attack if you had to move to close with the opponent (defined as more than 10'). So being able to get multiple attacks and still run around the battlefield? Nope. You may have gotten 5' more, but that's really it.

3e mostly made those things a lot clearer more than actually change them.

Interesting perspective, and not something I’d really considered previously. I appreciate your take on this.
 


Jonathan Tweet

Adventurer
The unified XP table remains pretty popular these days, and I won't say wrongly so, but it didn't do multiclassing any favors.

The multiclassing system was promising, and prestige classes are cool, but overall the multiclassing system was impossible to balance. 13th Age has a multiclassing system in a supplement, and it puts a lot more work into balancing multiclassing.
 


Jonathan Tweet

Adventurer
That doesn't sound like us. Are you sure? /s

We were blown away by how well the audience accepted the changes!
Gaining hit points every level has serious knock on effects to the game math that 2e to 5e has never successfully handled. High level combat has always been cumbersome and slow for both players and DM. To the point that a lot of groups don't even bother with high level play.

High-level play was a real challenge for us in my 3E campaign. For 13th Age, Rob Heinsoo and I went "old school" and packed then level-up benefits into 10 levels.
 


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