D&D 3E/3.5 Jonathan Tweet: Third Edition and Per-Day Spells

On the Third Edition design team, we were tasked with rationalizing the game system, but there were some big elements of the system that we didn’t question. We inherited a system in which spellcasters get better in three ways at a time as they level up; they get more spells per day, higher-level spells, and more damage with spells of a given level. In retrospect, that problem is easy to see...

On the Third Edition design team, we were tasked with rationalizing the game system, but there were some big elements of the system that we didn’t question. We inherited a system in which spellcasters get better in three ways at a time as they level up; they get more spells per day, higher-level spells, and more damage with spells of a given level. In retrospect, that problem is easy to see, and we didn’t fix it. We also inherited a system that balanced powerful class features, notably spells, by making them usable once per day. The problems with that system are less obvious, and we didn’t fix this system, either. But the 3E system laid bare its own inner workings, and so soon enough designers saw that there were issues with this system, and over the years several of us designers have tried to address it one way or another.

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In classic dungeon crawling, the default best strategy is to take each room one at a time and regain your hit points and spells after each one. That’s no fun, so people usually don’t play that way. For 3E, we spelled out that the game was balanced for four average battles between heal-ups, but actual practice varied. Whatever per-day powers are balanced at one rate of fights per day are necessarily unbalanced at faster or slower rates. Classes with lots of per-day power are too strong when there are one or two fights per day and too weak when there are five or more. Individual Dungeon Masters might be able to schedule the action in such a way that they maintain the sort of balance they’re looking for. If that works, it represents the DM’s efforts and not anything we on the design team could accomplish through system design. Many Dungeon Masters might find the per-day rules convenient precisely because they allow the DM to modulate the threat level up and down. DMs rule on how many encounters the party has in a day and whether they can suspend their mission long enough to reset their spells and other per-day powers. A dynamic I’ve seen over and over again, however, is that players with spellcasting characters are adept at talking the DM into letting the party rest. When the spellcaster is out of spells, they need a night’s rest a lot more than the other characters in the party need to press on. When a mission goes south and the encounters burn up more per-day resources than the DM figured they would, the party often simply camps out for the night and sets out the next day with spells reset to full.

Limiting spells by day also means that a spellcaster’s power level is different when they’re in a preliminary skirmish compared to when they’re in a climactic showdown. When it’s a high-priority battle or when the player knows that there’s a long rest afterwards, the spellcaster can use their best spells without worrying about holding back. This effect is something of a game-wrecker when the party arranges to jump the big bad guy after prepping up to full. With a well-placed teleport, the party’s spellcasters can unload all their best “per-day” spells for the one battle that matters that day (an “alpha strike”). Classes with at-will powers can’t “unload” the way spellcasters can.

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The per-day system also changes up balance for NPCs. Generally, when a party attacks an NPC boss of some sort, that NPC is in a fight for their life, and they cut loose with every per-day power they can manage. Fighter NPCs aren’t particularly dangerous because they have no such resources to unleash. In my campaign, I found the psionicist NPC the most dangerous because they could use the point system to cast at full capacity every round. As player-characters, psionicists have all the balance problems of the wizard and then some.

Seeing the issues with per-day powers, the designers started experimenting with per-encounter powers in supplemental material. The psychic warrior, for example, had a “focus” that they could expend once in the battle in order to have a special effect. At that point, designers were still in simulation mode, and encounters that were “per-encounter” by fiat seemed too artificial. The psychic warrior had a believable, in-world reason for their “per-encounter” abilities. Tome of Battle: Book of the Nine Swords (2006) introduced special, limited-use powers for martial classes. By 4E, the designers fully embraced per-encounter powers.

Fourth edition established balance among the classes by giving all of them per-day and per-encounter powers. That’s one way to solve the balance issue. 4E is so well-balanced that it’s hard to make bad choices in character design. This approach had the unfortunate effect of making the classes all feel sort of the same.

With 13th Age, Rob Heinsoo and I took a different approach. We turned 3E’s four-fights guideline into a hard rule. You get your spells and hit points back not just by resting but only if you have engaged in a minimum amount of fighting. After your fourth fight (or after four fights’ worth of fighting), the party gets to reset to full. Alternatively, the party can admit defeat and get a heal-up without “earning” it, but admitting defeat entails a “campaign loss,” as determined by the GM. This system creates a lovely rhythm, with characters feeling flush and confident in the first fight, feeling hard pressed in the last fight, and then feeling good again when they heal up. I play a cleric in a 13th Age campaign, and the last fight before a heal-up is tough going. The last fight is so tough that we player all know that the decisions and rolls we made in the earlier fights all mattered in terms of what we have left for the last one.
 

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Jonathan Tweet

Jonathan Tweet

D&D 3E, Over the Edge, Everway, Ars Magica, Omega World, Grandmother Fish

Staffan

Legend
A design conceit I don't see often in tabletop RPGs is the "super meter," a la fighting games.

In every edition of D&D except 4th, wizards open with their best spells. And in 5e, fighters will throw their superiority dice as quickly as possible, because the best way to win a fight is usually to pour as much damage into each enemy as necessary to remove them from the field as quickly as possible.
13th Ages escalation die is partially intended to do that, by making it so attacks have an easier time hitting later in the fight.

The only other game I can recall seeing it in is Iron Heroes (written by some punk named Mike Mearls). Iron Heroes is a d20 game where PCs mostly don't have magic, but they have or can at least access superhuman martial abilities. Many classes use some form of charging up to allow them to use these abilities - for example, the berserker gets Fury tokens when they take damage, and the archer gets Aim tokens when they spend time, well, aiming.

It was a pretty cool idea, but I think the execution lacked a bit. For many of the classes, charging up basically meant spending actions doing nothing, and that's not so fun. I'd rather have a situation where you primarily use proactive abilities, but some provide you with a resource and others spend it. I remember back when I was playing an enhancement shaman in WoW, and they had abilities that worked like that. Combined with cooldowns and procs (abilities that trigger randomly, often providing windows of opportunity for other things), it created some interesting gameplay.

Wow, is there anytime that this post doesn’t turn into shilling for 13th Age?
Dude. It's a series of retrospective posts focusing on the design of 3e. Some time after 3e, Jonathan co-wrote another d20-based game, to a large degree to take the best bits of 3e and 4e and combine it with some more narrative aspects. Of course Jonathan is going to use 13th Age as an example discussing how he'd do some things differently - that's where he did do them differently.
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Problem is fixing things either creates new problems or you end up with "not D&D".

It's the old can you personally make a better burger than McDonalds".

When we played 2E again after 3E we discovered it was a lot better balanced so 4E reinvented the wheel, 13th age is doing something else and 5E is suffering in some ways due to decisions made in the lead up to 3E.

The key fundamental problem of every D&D, Pathfinder, 23tg Age is the assumption of XYZ encounters. And the removal of all the nasty bstuff.

That leaves hp attrition as the to to.
 

With a few notable exceptions, all RPGs are attrition games. Most games where there are no attritions, are nova style with a high possibility of character death in combat (I look at you Cthulhu, Battletech RPG, Robotech RPG, Paranoia and many others) or a lot of politics and expoloration (Star Trek FASA, Star Wars West End Games to name but two). As soon as Fantasy and Magic are included, it turns out that the ressource attrition game starts, be it through spells, spell points, hit points or whatever.
 

The problem with saying that "the restrictions balanaced it all" was that most people playing hated those restrictions and didn't use them. 3rd edition merely codified the way most people already played. Note that 5th edition when going to scale everything back simply took stuff out rather than adding in restrictions no one would abide by anyway....
 

Zardnaar

Legend
The problem with saying that "the restrictions balanaced it all" was that most people playing hated those restrictions and didn't use them. 3rd edition merely codified the way most people already played. Note that 5th edition when going to scale everything back simply took stuff out rather than adding in restrictions no one would abide by anyway....

Restrictions were there for a reason. Some if them were silly but a few were there for reasons.

20 years later we're still dealing with some of those decisions.
 

Aaron L

Hero
I think that most people with long-running campaigns do exactly this. Certainly in my current deadlands campaign, the main villain is actively laying traps and summoning assassins to kill off the players. In my Fate campaign, one faction tried to change the laws of the land to make the players declared a danger to society, and another started trailing them and setting spies on them so they'd know when the PCs were on the move.

I think the days of monsters sitting in dungeons or just "wandering" with no purpose are well dead. I haven't seen such a game out of a retro throwback for a long time. PbtA uses clocks, NBA uses the vampyramid and conspyramid, but regardless of how they are implemented, its game snow assume that intelligent opposition behaves as you describe -- intelligently.

Here's a link to a sample opposition pyramid from Night's Black Agents, for those unfamiliar with the system: Eclipse Phase Adversary Pyramid
It's been this way forever. Back in 1st Edition the Temple of Elemental Evil module had guidelines for how the monsters and inhabitants of the Temple would react to PC intrusion and how many new recruits they would attract over periods of time. The idea that old D&D dungeons were just static and didn't react to PC actions is pretty much a myth based on lazy DMing.
 


Restrictions were there for a reason. Some if them were silly but a few were there for reasons.

20 years later we're still dealing with some of those decisions.

No one wanted to use them though. And if your balancing requires rules that no one wants to use...that's bad design.

How many people actually enforced demihuman limits for instance? And those who did, how many had campaigns where anyone got to the level where it actually mattered?
 

Zardnaar

Legend
No one wanted to use them though. And if your balancing requires rules that no one wants to use...that's bad design.

How many people actually enforced demihuman limits for instance? And those who did, how many had campaigns where anyone got to the level where it actually mattered?

I was referring more to magic and some other stuff.

Level limits weren't a great idea IMHO. Old D&D is easier to run from the mid levels say 8ish.

And direct damage spells are supposed to be broken but the warmage was fine in 3E.

So they fixed some things that didn't need fixing, missed some other things and created new problems.

A big obvious one was unified xp tables. The AD&D ones were funky, but the BECMI ones were good.

They didn't reduce Spellcaster power to compensate, upped the power level, nerfed the fighter, and removed restrictions on spells such as haste aging you.

And a lot of this was obvious on 3Es release. And got worse once you figured out the new abuses. 4E fixed it by throwing out the baby with the bath water and 5E just defaulted to easy mode and is worse at mid level to run than say B/X.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
The problem with saying that "the restrictions balanaced it all" was that most people playing hated those restrictions and didn't use them.
I hate that I can't move my rook anywhere I want to on the chessboard - it can only go in straight lines until it hits an obstruction. I rather suspect everyone who has ever played chess has thought the same at least once. :)

Doesn't mean the game should be changed to accommodate such thoughts, or that those restrictions should be removed.

3rd edition merely codified the way most people already played. Note that 5th edition when going to scale everything back simply took stuff out rather than adding in restrictions no one would abide by anyway....
If people don't abide by restrictions that's their own choice.

Generally, it's far easier to remove a restriction than to impose one. What the WotC-era designers have done is to largely move the imposition of restrictions on to individual DMs; which makes those DMs the bad guys at the table for imposing the restrictions instead of the good guys for (hopefully after serious forethought) removing them.
 

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