July Errata is up

[AbdulAlhazred]

So it's like Tumble, but better. I'm not seeing the problem.

Obviously they probably wouldn't have designed 2 such similar utility powers from the start like this, but its not a big issue. If you don't take Tumble at level 2 (and with Fleeting Ghost at that level who would) then you can just take Ignoble Escape at level 6 (whereas if it didn't exist you could take Tumble at level 6, but since IE exists you might as well get the minuscule extra benefit).

 

[keterys]

Fleeting Ghost is pretty bad or unnecessary for an awful lot of rogues. Sadly, I can no longer point from Tumble to Ethereal Stride and go 'Okay, how the hell are these the same level?'

The real competition is probably Sneak in the Attack at that level.

 

[MrMyth]

So now what do I do with Ignoble Escape?

As a level 6 rogue utility, the only difference compared with Tumble (level 2 rogue utility) is that it can remove the marked condition.

Yeah, a very small upgrade in power.

But the real strength is that with both of them, you can now shift a good distance twice per encounter. That's strong.

 

[Nifft]

But the real strength is that with both of them, you can now shift a good distance twice per encounter. That's strong.

Yep yep.

If you're a Rogue who benefits from mobility, having lots of mobility sounds good to me.

Cheers, -- N

 

[DracoSuave]

You do realize that 4e has a very specific power curve in regards to Enhancement bonuses? Even level monsters and PCs hit on a 10+,

The curve is not like that.

Originally, PCs started just ahead of the curve. With a +3 attribute bonus, at level 2 with the +1 something, if you're an implement user, your hit will be +5, and the defenses you are hitting will be 14, giving you 60%.

The collecting wisdom, however, makes characters with +4 attribute bonuses, and starts with some form of accuracy booster, for another +1, giving 70%.

At level 30, using the original progression, 15(lvl)+7(att)+6(enh) = +28, 42, meaning you need an 8 to hit, putting you at 45%. But by that point you have such easy access to bonuses to hit and combat advantage that you're not far behind.

Of course, now, with an extra attribute bonus, and +4 from accuracy boosting feats, this implement user would be at 70% again.

The game's '50% to hit' rate only existed at level 29. Every other level, the hit rate was some higher number.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

So it's like Tumble, but better. I'm not seeing the problem.

I'd retrain Tumble. Or use both in the same encounter.

Brad

 

[Victim]

Yeah, our rogue has been built for mad mobility with Tumble, Ignoble Escape, Guerrilla Blitz and Speed 8. If anything, he's too fast; with his extra mobility he's sometimes tempted to go after more isolated monsters and work on them with all his CA granting stuff instead of focusing fire.

 

[Legildur]

But the real strength is that with both of them, you can now shift a good distance twice per encounter. That's strong.

Not as strong for a halfling artful dodger as you might think, as they already get +6 (assuming 18 Cha at 8th level) to AC versus movement based opportunity attacks and have the halfing racial ability Second Chance to possibly ignore any damage they might sustain.

I guess it seems a little odd to see such a miniscule improvement in a power for something 4 levels higher.... In fact, I usually forget about the ability to remove the marked condition. If something has me marked, I tend to attack it irrespective of the condition.

Might look at retraining either Tumble or Ignoble Escape, but not both.

 

[Lord Ernie]

Not as strong for a halfling artful dodger as you might think, as they already get +6 (assuming 18 Cha at 8th level) to AC versus movement based opportunity attacks and have the halfing racial ability Second Chance to possibly ignore any damage they might sustain.

I guess it seems a little odd to see such a miniscule improvement in a power for something 4 levels higher.... In fact, I usually forget about the ability to remove the marked condition. If something has me marked, I tend to attack it irrespective of the condition.

Might look at retraining either Tumble or Ignoble Escape, but not both.

If Dragon options are allowed, have a look at "Swift Parry" at level 6. It's an encounter power which adds your charisma modifier to defenses vs. one attack as an interrupt, and gives you combat advantage against the attacker for one turn. It's basically the Rogue's version of Shield, with extras .

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Fleeting Ghost is pretty bad or unnecessary for an awful lot of rogues. Sadly, I can no longer point from Tumble to Ethereal Stride and go 'Okay, how the hell are these the same level?'

The real competition is probably Sneak in the Attack at that level.

FG is still awesome for the majority of rogues. Sure you can be a Cunning Sneak and its totally redundant. You could be a build that pretty much eschews stealth and you might not care about it, but even then its highly useful. Its still probably the hands down best choice for 75% of rogues that are out there. In my experience it is far and away the single most used utility power in the game.