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Just Not Feelin' It...
- Thread starter Ogrork the Mighty
- Start date
Thunderfoot
Hero
I can't salve the wounds of the collective hurts of my fellow gamers, I can't say a few words to make it all better, but there is a ray of hope. Unlike the move from 2E to 3.X, it appears that this will be closer to the move from 1E to 2E. The reps have already stated that a conversion guide will not be released. This can mean one of two things, the game is so close to the new edition that the minor mods needed will be intuitive and therefore a conversion would be unnecessary or that the game is so radically different that conversion should be more of a re-structure. Either way, your current source books would still have some value.
I still have all of my 2E DMG resources (the blue cover splats) sitting at my right hand. I still use them, often if truth be told. I didn't purchase all the extra materials for 3.X for two reasons, 1) I was happy with the core and didn't need the extras stuff (PrCs are powergamer food IMO) and 2) I am a father of 2 and husband, I am in college, my oldest is in college and my wife is the only one working, in other words, I'm poor as dirt. Am I happy about having to buy new books, no, hardly as I can barely afford extras as it is (GenCon attendance this year was the first family vacation we have taken in 8 years). But if the game is better suited for beginners, easier to manage and fixes some of the problems and slay some of the sacred cows of previous editions, then let it come, not that we can stop it anyway.
Do I think WotC is making a mistake, yes. If you were at the reveal at GenCon, you got more a sense of resignation rather than elation; acceptance not embrasure. Many knew it was coming, but not really sure what to expect. There were signs, we saw them, we all cringed, but it's here. We can complain, (something I'm tired of, both doing and hearing) we can fight, (a futile gesture to be sure) we can accept, (the decision many will take) or we can ignore. (a position that quite a few will take, at least at the outset)
I hope that no one at ENworld leaves the boards because it is inevitable that it will evolve along with the game and become 4e dominant. Each person here is a vital part of why I came here and as diaglo is still running OD&D (1978) there is precedence for your continued presence here. Do not despair fellow gamers, I implore you, make your decision, stick to your guns and game on. Its what makes this hobby more than the fad it was implied to be in the 70s and 80s...resilience.
I still have all of my 2E DMG resources (the blue cover splats) sitting at my right hand. I still use them, often if truth be told. I didn't purchase all the extra materials for 3.X for two reasons, 1) I was happy with the core and didn't need the extras stuff (PrCs are powergamer food IMO) and 2) I am a father of 2 and husband, I am in college, my oldest is in college and my wife is the only one working, in other words, I'm poor as dirt. Am I happy about having to buy new books, no, hardly as I can barely afford extras as it is (GenCon attendance this year was the first family vacation we have taken in 8 years). But if the game is better suited for beginners, easier to manage and fixes some of the problems and slay some of the sacred cows of previous editions, then let it come, not that we can stop it anyway.
Do I think WotC is making a mistake, yes. If you were at the reveal at GenCon, you got more a sense of resignation rather than elation; acceptance not embrasure. Many knew it was coming, but not really sure what to expect. There were signs, we saw them, we all cringed, but it's here. We can complain, (something I'm tired of, both doing and hearing) we can fight, (a futile gesture to be sure) we can accept, (the decision many will take) or we can ignore. (a position that quite a few will take, at least at the outset)
I hope that no one at ENworld leaves the boards because it is inevitable that it will evolve along with the game and become 4e dominant. Each person here is a vital part of why I came here and as diaglo is still running OD&D (1978) there is precedence for your continued presence here. Do not despair fellow gamers, I implore you, make your decision, stick to your guns and game on. Its what makes this hobby more than the fad it was implied to be in the 70s and 80s...resilience.
JoeGKushner
First Post
Korgoth said:
That's always a possibility. Same problem faced by people who've been playing games of all types. But it's not really the corporations fault as opposed to the people who want to play the 'shinny' no?
I can't speak for everyone. I have enough material to run d20 adventures till I die. No, serously. If I lived till 80, I'd have enough material to run a weekly campaign.
But I am looking forward to seeing what's new. I'm part 'reader' when it comes to RPGs so the reading aspect excites me. I was one of those who wasn't impressed by Iron Hereos or True 20, despite having some great innovations in 'em, so I'll be curious to see how 4e can build.
But to fret that your gaming group is going to shaft you to play the new game... well, I'm sure it happens to people who play MMoMG all the time. One of my friends has gone through about six different online games and keeps jumping the shark in pursuit of the ultimate' high' or whatever you call it.
Festivus
First Post
Ogrork the Mighty said:
Well, as a relative late comer to 3rd edition, I don't have nearly as vast a library as you do, however I do have more than enough gaming goodness to last a lifetime, and yet... 4th edition intrigues me. I find 3rd edition rich with rules... to the point that it gets in the way of my gaming fun once you pass level 12 or so. I look forward to a more simple ruleset... or at the very least, starting over with everyone else on page one.
Perhaps you could peg yourself on this chart, I know when Dungeon and Dragon were cancelled I traversed the entire darn thing... to that point that I am ready to buy the digital editions of them.
The stages Kubler-Ross identified are:
Denial (this isn't happening to me!)
Anger (why is this happening to me?)
Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...)
Depression (I don't care anymore)
Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)
Whatever happens, just find a group and play a game (whatever it might end up being)... this is all meant to be fun anyhow.
WizarDru
Adventurer
Video Game Consoles are a perfectly valid comparison. How many Gamecube games have come out in the last year? How many new AAA PS2 games (not shovelware, not 2 year old translated imports, etc.)? The PS2 has sold 115+ million units....sure there will be some new games coming. But most of it is stuff just being shoved out the door to a desperate audience. The PS2 is widely regarded as having had it's last hurrah, the Gamecube and the Original Xbox have both been abandoned.
But that doesn't make the consoles any less useful. The PS2's back library is HUGE. And claims that old games won't sell is nonsense. Just last night, I purchased Super Metroid on the Wii's virtual console, which has seen fantastic sales this year. Sales of updated games on Xbox Live Arcade and the Playstation Store of old games is brisk. Sales of old games is as strong as ever. The same is true of 1e, 2e and now 3e...except that unlike those platforms, with D&D you can actually generate your own content. Better yet, you can continue to exchange it with other enthusiasts.
The idea that 4e is 'too soon' is a personal judgement, and will vary for each person. The idea that significant advancements couldn't be formulated in even a simple two years is, to me, ridiculous. ENWorld is rife with discussions of things in the rules that people are constantly discussing the validity of or new mechanics they've created. The whole benefit of the SRD and OGL was the creation of just that sort of thing. Look at Unearthed Arcana: some of those concepts came from 3rd party development. Look at all the interesting mechanics such as Incarnum, Reserve Feats, Teamwork benefits, Legacy Weapons, the 9 Swords combat system and more (let alone the ideas from the Saga system, Iron Heroes, Arcana Unearthed and True20 systems that have filtered into the core). More people have been working on improving D&D (consciously or not) more than ever before, and have been interacting more than ever before.
I was guarded when I heard the announcement, but everything I've heard since then evokes the same feelings I got when I picked up the 3e PHB seven years ago on a whim (with no expectations of returning to D&D). That the new editions chief developer wasn't playing D&D when 3E was in development should show you how far we've come.
Now, if you feel WotC is doing you the dirt, then vote with your dollars. Don't buy 4e, and support people who are still releasing 3e and try to convince others to do the same. With the advent of games like C&C and OSRIC, it's clear that older editions will always have some level of support, especially via the 'net.
I personally look forward to an edition that refines everything I like in the 3e/3.5e and improves it. It's possible they'll fail, of course, but I haven't been disappointed with the last two editions, so I'll continue to be optimistic. YMMV.
But that doesn't make the consoles any less useful. The PS2's back library is HUGE. And claims that old games won't sell is nonsense. Just last night, I purchased Super Metroid on the Wii's virtual console, which has seen fantastic sales this year. Sales of updated games on Xbox Live Arcade and the Playstation Store of old games is brisk. Sales of old games is as strong as ever. The same is true of 1e, 2e and now 3e...except that unlike those platforms, with D&D you can actually generate your own content. Better yet, you can continue to exchange it with other enthusiasts.
The idea that 4e is 'too soon' is a personal judgement, and will vary for each person. The idea that significant advancements couldn't be formulated in even a simple two years is, to me, ridiculous. ENWorld is rife with discussions of things in the rules that people are constantly discussing the validity of or new mechanics they've created. The whole benefit of the SRD and OGL was the creation of just that sort of thing. Look at Unearthed Arcana: some of those concepts came from 3rd party development. Look at all the interesting mechanics such as Incarnum, Reserve Feats, Teamwork benefits, Legacy Weapons, the 9 Swords combat system and more (let alone the ideas from the Saga system, Iron Heroes, Arcana Unearthed and True20 systems that have filtered into the core). More people have been working on improving D&D (consciously or not) more than ever before, and have been interacting more than ever before.
I was guarded when I heard the announcement, but everything I've heard since then evokes the same feelings I got when I picked up the 3e PHB seven years ago on a whim (with no expectations of returning to D&D). That the new editions chief developer wasn't playing D&D when 3E was in development should show you how far we've come.
Now, if you feel WotC is doing you the dirt, then vote with your dollars. Don't buy 4e, and support people who are still releasing 3e and try to convince others to do the same. With the advent of games like C&C and OSRIC, it's clear that older editions will always have some level of support, especially via the 'net.
I personally look forward to an edition that refines everything I like in the 3e/3.5e and improves it. It's possible they'll fail, of course, but I haven't been disappointed with the last two editions, so I'll continue to be optimistic. YMMV.
Aus_Snow
First Post
Well actually. . .Mythmere1 said:Why doesn't FUDGE have a small but vocal fanbase? It's conspicuous by absence.
I do seem to recall some fairly persistent FATE fanbois/fangrrls round here, if that counts.
But no, never posting with anything like the same consistency as proponents of certain other systems, derivations, conveniences or whatever.
Not on these boards anyway. Must be that whole D&D focus thing.
HeyJoe
First Post
The_Gneech said:I assume you're referring to the line "Just because somebody likes or dislikes something you feel differently about doesn't make them (or you) stupid or a jerk." Well, I stand by that. I don't think you're stupid or a jerk.
Slot machines are a sucker's game too ... that doesn't make people who enjoy them stupid or jerks either. It just makes them enjoy tossing money down a hole for an adrenalin rush.
I'm a sucker for Robert E. Howard collections. I've probably got at least twelve different copies of "Skulls In the Stars" but I keep buying Solomon Kane collections anyway. That doesn't make me stupid or a jerk. It does make me a sucker, tho.
-The Gneech
Hmmm I don't know if I like the slot machine analogy, but I do see what you are saying. The difference for me between WoW and a slot machine is the fact that with WoW I am at least engaging my mind... it's certainly more interactive than watching TV for example.
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