Just Not Feelin' It...

[Fifth Element]

...chess has managed to last hundreds (thousands?) of years without any changes to the core rules, and still remains one of the most popular games in the world. IMHO, the whole idea that games rules must continually evolve or die is just plain false.

D&D is not chess, or any other board game for that matter. Invalid comparison.
It's not that game rules "must continually evolve or die". It's that they do continually evolve. The old rules don't die. If you don't want to play 4E, just keep playing what you're playing now (for the Nth time, your old books won't disappear).

Arguing that the industry leader should somehow ignore the evolution of RPG games and stick to the old stuff, despite the fact that there is more money to be made in the new stuff, is ridiculous.

2. By continually making a quality product, supporting it, and treating your fanbase as a group of loyal customers to be cherished rather than rubes to be bilked out of easy money.

This part is just trolling (man I'm getting a lot of use out of the ignore feature lately). If you don't want to buy 4E, don't buy it. Do you realize how many "loyal customers" have been complaining that more and more 3.5E support is just more of the same old stuff?

 

[Thurbane]

D&D is not chess, or any other board game for that matter. Invalid comparison.

Well, perhaps it is not an ideal comparison. My point was that a games core rules don't have to be regularly updated for it to be fun and playable. I could still sit down to a game of 1E AD&D or Basic D&D and still have a fun, perfectly playable game. That was the point I was trying to emphasize.

It's not that game rules "must continually evolve or die". It's that they do continually evolve. The old rules don't die. If you don't want to play 4E, just keep playing what you're playing now (for the Nth time, your old books won't disappear).

While that is certainly true (and exactly what I intend to do) it does however mean that "official" products for my preferred edition will become few and far between. Admittedly, some 3rd party publishers will probably carry the 3.5 torch for some time to come, which is good news for me.

Arguing that the industry leader should somehow ignore the evolution of RPG games and stick to the old stuff, despite the fact that there is more money to be made in the new stuff, is ridiculous.

Ridiculous in your opinion perhaps, not in mine. I just don't accept that there is some kind of "RPG arms race" that D&D/WotC has to keep on top of with new editions of the game.

This part is just trolling

Especially when you snip out the disclaimer I posted after this.

(man I'm getting a lot of use out of the ignore feature lately).

It would be sad to think that you put someone on ignore for such a minor (and largely imagined) slight. The point may have been a little crudely worded, but was not intended as trolling. BTW, telling someone you're putting them on ignore is the forum equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "lalalalalala!"

If you don't want to buy 4E, don't buy it. Do you realize how many "loyal customers" have been complaining that more and more 3.5E support is just more of the same old stuff?

No, you're right, I don't. But I've not seen much evidence to show me that the majority of WotC consumers and D&D players believe that a new edition so close on the heels of 3.5 was neccessarily the answer to this, either.

 

[F4NBOY]

Because if you're going to be rude, I'm going to be blunt about the wrongness of your point. Video games and tabletop roleplaying games are very different types of game. Your comment has about as much value and insight as saying "Baseball's a game and D&D is a game. Anything that applies to one is equally true of the other."

Which is to say it has little value beyond stating the obvious about them both being games, and even that is in only the broadest, most vague of definitions. There's still a lot of difference between the two kinds of game, and a lot of factors that don't apply the same to both. You're comparing apples to oranges.


No, I'm well aware of it. And it's still not the same. You're ignoring a lot of important factors that make the comparison less valid (heck, I still play my old Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Genesis, PlayStation, and GameBoys on occasion, and I don't need anyone else to play those with. And I've gotten a lot of hours of entertainment out of each of them, more than I've gotten out of D&D. But I still prefer D&D).

And you're just continuing to be rude and snipe at anything that doesn't agree with you. Including a rude allegory by you that anyone who doesn't adore 4th Edition is like some wierd, maladjusted, fanatical, pathetic loser.

My point is no trying to prove RPGs and videogames are the same...
But the people that plays them may feel the same emotions regarding new versions of their games, because they can love their games the same way. And both parties' emotions are legit.
When both types of gamers feel bad when the company that produce their games announces a new version, they should blaim the companies for that sadness, but themselves. The company are just doing what they are supposed to do, and no one that lives in the real world can say he wasn't aware of that.
The only person responsable for that bad feelings is the one that feels them, and no one else, and not the company. And blaiming anyone else will just keep you farther maybe feeling better someday again.
That's my point.

Did you realize YOU are the one that doesn't agree with me and keep insulting me?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

But you could be, couldn't you? They'll be recruiting playtesters through the RPGA and Gleemax, right?

Oh, dare I hope...

I certainly hope they open it up soon. In terms of testing and development there isn't huge amounts of time left.

--fje

 

[HeyJoe]

[2] It is my firm belief that subscribing to online content, whether it be MMOs or magazines, is for suckers. I want my hard copy.

Wow, this directly contradicts one of the quotes in your signature... but then, maybe you just put that quote in there to seem reasonable.

So I am a sucker because I play an MMO that I enjoy? I would say more, but I don't care to have my account banned. You fill in the blanks.

 

[Khairn]

Thanks. That response perfectly captures my impression of WotC these days. "You don't like what we're doing? Move on then."

Maybe I will.

There are many others in the same boat as you, with the same impressions, particularly of WotC's willingness to marginilize 1 target market in their search for another. But hey, its a business and nothing personal. You'll have to do what's right for you. If after all the hype of the last few days you statred aren't excited, leave and play another game.

 

[The_Gneech]

Wow, this directly contradicts one of the quotes in your signature... but then, maybe you just put that quote in there to seem reasonable.

So I am a sucker because I play an MMO that I enjoy? I would say more, but I don't care to have my account banned. You fill in the blanks.

I assume you're referring to the line "Just because somebody likes or dislikes something you feel differently about doesn't make them (or you) stupid or a jerk." Well, I stand by that. I don't think you're stupid or a jerk.

Slot machines are a sucker's game too ... that doesn't make people who enjoy them stupid or jerks either. It just makes them enjoy tossing money down a hole for an adrenalin rush.

I'm a sucker for Robert E. Howard collections. I've probably got at least twelve different copies of "Skulls In the Stars" but I keep buying Solomon Kane collections anyway. That doesn't make me stupid or a jerk. It does make me a sucker, tho.

-The Gneech

 

[carmachu]

If you're like me and have a ton of 3.x books standing on your shelves, you just use them and say: "So what if there's a shiny new edition? I got enough source material here to last me a lifetime. It's time to get creative!" I'm not completely sold on 4th edition either.

Thats kind of just it: Even if you are not feeling it O, you have a ton of books and enough material to last a long while....so dont switch, stay with what you have....and play 3.5

Thats what we're doing right now.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I'm a little confused by the OP.

The game isn't being changed for eight months. So enjoy the game you have and see if the new one suits you.

If you're supported the game with heavy purchases, I would think that it's because you enjoyed it.

Are you playing one long running campaign and feel that 4th ed will ruin it? Are you playing seven or eight simultaneous campaigns and worried that 4e will ruin it?

4e will not stop you playing. If you feel 'bad' about playing an old edition that's no longer supported, despite having a ton of stuff already, I really don't know what to say.

 

[Korgoth]

I'm a little confused by the OP.

The game isn't being changed for eight months. So enjoy the game you have and see if the new one suits you.

If you're supported the game with heavy purchases, I would think that it's because you enjoyed it.

Are you playing one long running campaign and feel that 4th ed will ruin it? Are you playing seven or eight simultaneous campaigns and worried that 4e will ruin it?

4e will not stop you playing. If you feel 'bad' about playing an old edition that's no longer supported, despite having a ton of stuff already, I really don't know what to say.

Do you suppose that some of the concern is simply "I really enjoy my 3.5 game(s) and I'm afraid that lots of people will want to stop playing 3.5 in favor of 4E"?

Although that's about the opposite of where I'm at, I can see it as a concern in and of itself.