Just say NO to buff items, the crack of D&D.

[Tuzenbach]

How often has your party monk come to blows with the rogue over a set of gloves of dexterity +2? How many times have you seen the sad, sad sight of the party paladin gutting the sorcerer for a cloak of charisma +4? And then there's the party's halfling wizard, who just wants the girdle of giant strength +4 so he can be strong enough to carry his own spellbook. Alas, the party barbarian goes into a rage and dumps the poor halfling's body outside of town...Who will help me strike down this foul addiction to buff items?

I'll have you know that the above is the best part of D&D for me. As a DM, I delight in giving out numerous buffs because I KNOW the party will fight over the stuff. It's a huge part of the game, without which, I would not play. If the players can't compete with each other for loot, why even play? For listening at doors and rolling well in combat? Ha! Not bloody likely!

 

[Zad]

For the most part I'm in line with Elder-Basilisk and his response.

1. An Arms race between players (and the DM). In order to stay viable it is not enough to go up levels, but one must min-max items (as well as feats and class choices). If you need the stat boost just to stay average (for your level) then you simple raise the bar without providing any actual benefit for acquiring the treasures.

Stat boosters don't change this. The game is an arms race. You need that +4 sword to stand up to the demon, you need to bypass DR, you need armor that will give you a high enough AC to survive, you need to boost your saving throws to shrug off the effects of that nasty spell. The whole game is a progression where things get harder and the characters have to keep up.

2. Stat Boosters overshadow characters inherent abilities. My concept of a big strong fighter is not some guy with a pair of nice gloves. Not that my concept is the only possible one. But the more items duplicate and replace class abilities, the more likely people become homogenous.

I can see what you're saying here, but EB is right. A big strong fighter is not a guy with nice gloves - it's a big strong guy with gloves that make him even stronger. But I can't argue this point - your vision for your world is completely up to you and I would never argue otherwise on that score. Adjust challenges accordingly and have fun.

3. Reduces choices for DMs to give treasures. Am I a bad DM if I don't give out X number of stat boosters every third adventure?

No it really doesn't. Give out whatever treasure amuses you. You need to provide access to stat boosters - that doesn't mean they have to be in every treasure pile. PC's could buy them from a wizard on commission.


But the fact remains that you can change it if you want as long as you make all the other adjustments as well. The question as always is "is it worth it to you to do all that extra work for the sake of your world vision?" Visions are worth work - the usual thing people do is not realize how much work is involved

 

[Dimwhit]

Cyberzombie, I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

And, incidentally, I agree completely. Though I currently still play 3.0 and see NO problems whatsoever with the hour/level buffs. Haven't heard a valid argument against them yet.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

In short:

Craft Wondrous Item can't make any "always-on" items. If you want that, either make it a Ring, Rod, or Arms/Armor as appropriate.

So, the Belt of Giant Strength might cast Bull's Strength five times per day, at Caster Level 3. When this item was translated to 3.5E, nothing had to change; it could now still cast it five times per day.

Actually, we expanded the basic rules a bit, by giving three options:
1> Standard Activation: The default. The item takes a Standard Action to activate. Cost is 360gp * spell level * caster level * uses per day.
2> Command Activated: The item only takes a Free Action to activate (all you need is a thought or one word). Cost is 500gp * spell level * caster level * uses per day.
3> Interruptible Activation: The item takes a Free Action to activate, AND you can choose to only use part of the duration, so instead of "X charges", it's listed as "X rounds". For example, the Boots of Speed. Cost is 750gp * spell level * (caster level * uses per day). The reason I put that last part in parentheses is that the product is all that matters; if the duration is 1 round/level, and you have caster level 10, then the item has 10 rounds of use.

I like this idea a lot, but I'm curious: how did you come up with the cost numbers?

I'd of course allow the latter, but I think of that as a more involved process than just plopping down the gold. I think comissioning should largely be a matter of roleplaying: mages won't do the work for just anyone, and may ask for special favors in addition to the cost...

I've just never understood this line of thinking. Why will they not work for "just anyone"? If they work for money at all, why is the PCs' money not good enough for their time? It doesn't make any sense. Extra favors? Maybe getting them the materials they need. Only time I could see them sending them on some quest or whatever is if they were a Gandalf-esque good-natured mentor type. I'd think your average N or LN mage is going to work for whoever gives them money. Sure, it'll take talking to them, but I don't see the need for all the 'extra special' stuff. The bartender doesn't make you wipe down his bar for pouring you an ale.

 

[Scion]

I use the 3.0 buffs, I have yet to see problem one. It is a tradeoff, either someone uses up a valueable slot for something that is temporary, can be dispelled, and will have an inconsitant bonus or you could simply buy an item (items that start off hard to get, but by the time you can use slots high enough to really compete they are cheap. Lets see.. use a high level slot, a feat, for the possibility of getting less/same/more than the item? or just simply have the item, spend much less equivalent wealth, and not worry about it?)

Stat boosting items are one way to go, not every class goes that way.

But, if you think that every character will use them, and that they will make characters look the same, then I am afraid magical weapons and armor must also leave your game.

If party members are 'fighting' over item X chances are good that they will fight over item Y as well. It is no different. 'hey, we found a cloak of displacement.. hmm.. it seems that the whole party wants this one! why couldnt it be a simple stat booster...'

 

[scholz]

How did this old discussion get dragged up again?

My last comment.
If the spell gets cast every adventure (not counting sorcerers) as opposed to other spells, then there is probably something wrong with the spell.

I switched to Arcana Unearthed and I am much happier.

 

[Scion]

umm.. right.. because no one has favorite spells

or situations that occur often

or like doing X effect

or ...

the list goes on forever you will need a much better list of criteria than that.

I had one caster who nearly all of his spell slots were full of chill touches.. every day, unless someone begged him to do something else.. all of the time.. chill touch is broken now?