Keen

Should Keen and Improved Critical Stack?

  • Yes, it provides a certain flavor and isn't overpowered.

    Votes: 47 71.2%
  • No, swashbuckling rapier artists are overpowered.

    Votes: 19 28.8%

well literaly the critcal damages scince the first AD&D have been somewhat unhelpfull,although the 'all the feats and schools' of character influences have been an interest .....

my fealing that critical should be used as a multi-attack,which invocates re-roll for next melee attack for that player-allowed for 1/2 damage of damage retainer //it used 16 traite as a common mediun for items,spells and weapons to allow critical and various weapon types only allow so many critical attacks a combat-the scythe with a 2d6 damage ,+3,+1 attack is the most allowing 5 criticals....

furthermore after 6 melees(thus party of 4=4 //enemies 10,they miss first round critical)is the retainer,so using critcal later when the chance of two rolls to attack has to be made insights the validity of a battle enviornment

thus the potions allowing extra trait score had relevnce in randomly found critical damage items etc,allowing players to use it if 16 wasn't their original score,and in original AD&D items were rolled for duration by players upon obtaining at 4D6 rounds( a good number of criticals with advantages -sometimes,espicially if you switch the weapon and the use is retained in real time rounds-also nice DM unconflicting with no carry over for 1 or 2 melee's as a round)and weapons 1D20 rounds(this also with DM ok -allows fighters with the ability to 1D6 x2 damage to with 18 strength,to attempt critical as a flow with 1 attack,and make the damage it's whole,the previous attack x2)

effectivelt further rationalizing the defining play with critical is 15th level represents sword use for character 1 critical with no re-roll,added to 17 traite varying with different classes(also the exception for critical play)that is tempered by iether the weapon number of criticals or item consecutaive criticals or some modifier there in-with no re -roll

these forms of critical damage use are easily a very intelligable way to use an extra damage modifier and keep the RPG element

so character scoring 3d6=14 then critical used,roll 3D6=12=6

essentailly +6 to damage therefore scored say 5 times in the combat,+30 damage,an ideal mediun,with 4 players using this-and level of play gets dertrived from their own damage rolls,and the playing trick is character may have missed 2 of 3 rolls that had to be done for critical use,while the two thers were allowed with no re-roll

players caught in the trap of re-roll,(often it's stated that the traite score for critical and the item or sword must match for no re-roll)have to decide it's potential and roll through using the scary reality of RPG at elements that rely on luck,or merit of planning such as extra damage modifiers being chacked for campiagn as the go for critical,and trair extra's to allow criticals that are found,while being only able to carry so much

and of course monsters have some difference to this all if anybody remembers armour class C was no critical damage,and variations made it an interesting mediun

just damge that dishes into damage roll numbers,while characters build this with no standard reality adjustment.........

well it's just stupid,might as well allow 'EXBIETHS SUPER ITEM' which depending on the characters hair colour allows 'critical'+1D6 a level,detremined by wound type,which in turn is or is not s form of wound on that enemy that recieves a high fortitude check for 'EXBIETHS SUPER ITEM' on wounds of that nature that then allows 3 schools of attack extra-'fine hair','combed appearance'and'skill with piddleywink' to stack however-duely played and damage is 50 no 60 no 110 critical.......aaaaahhhh pleeaaase what more can be said
 

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Eltern said:
Just wondering how many people house ruled this one away when 3.5 came around: Do Keen and Improved Crit stack, or no? I want to say stack them, since the concept of expanding crit ranges basically dies if you don't stack.

Eltern

I'm curious: How many GM's that allow this and other effects that increase crit ranges use them against the pc's?

One of the reasons I'm leery of anything that makes crits more common is that it simply increases the randomness in the game - after all, how many of us saw characters dropped by a lucky crit from a lowly orc with the greataxe? I can't help thinking that our players would prefer not stacking crit ranges if they're going to be on the receiving end very often.
 

Keen and Improved Critical are only powerful if you have some special bonus that applies on criticals.

So, no problem with them stacking.

Most of the time an extra +1 enhancement bonus or Weapon Focus is better.

Geoff.
 

Sir Whiskers said:
I'm curious: How many GM's that allow this and other effects that increase crit ranges use them against the pc's?

In 3.0 I used a nimblewright weapon master whose threat range was 7-20 against the pcs. If he didn't threat he used his wm ability to declare maximum damage.

But in answer to the thread's topic, I follow the rules as written re crit stacking. I didn't have a problem with it before, and I have a pc in my campaign who's a falchion master.
 

I think they should stack (and they DO stack in my games). One method is one of skill and precision, and the other is a matter of an extra sharp and specifically enchanted weapon. Just like the reason that Natural Armor bonuses stack with Dodge bonuses to armor class; they are two totally different concepts.
 

I'm leaning toward giving increases to threat ranges "types" like the various bonuses have.

In other words, the Improved Critical feat would provide a competence bonus to the threat range, a keen weapon (or the spell) would provide an enhancement bonus to the threat range. Different types would stack as per the rules for bonuses.

I like the idea of the keen enhancement and Improved Critical stacking, but am wary of S&F-type prestige classes allowing for obscene critical ranges. Then again, I agree with Hong that melee damage at higher levels possibly needs to be lower.
 

Geoff Watson said:
Keen and Improved Critical are only powerful if you have some special bonus that applies on criticals.

So, no problem with them stacking.

Most of the time an extra +1 enhancement bonus or Weapon Focus is better.

Geoff.

All the special bonus you need are Str and Power Attack. With a more potent (albeit shorter duration) Bull's Strength and Power Attack in 3.5, the falchion critmonster would get a huge boost if you allow keen to stack with improved critical.

The falchion critmonster was very powerful in 3.0. It is a Good Thing to remove the stacking, especially given the changes in Bull's Strength and Power Attack.
 

Felikeries said:
well literaly the critcal damages scince the first AD&D have been somewhat unhelpfull,although the 'all the feats and schools' of character influences have been an interest .....

etc.


And if you think that post was mindbogglingly confusing, try following the link in the sig and reading the story hour. :eek:
 

Never had a problem with it. By the time you can pull this off, there's so many monsters that are immune to crits you don't get the bonuses as often as you'd think. I remember playing a crit monster and screaming "OMG - I get to fight something alive!"
 

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